{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/troops-in-south-africa", "section": "troops-in-south-africa", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "er is aware, under orders for service in Matabeleland. It has been decided to send a further body of Mounted Infantry from England to the Cape, Mounted Infantry being considered better fitted than Cavalry for the special work to be performed. I would point out that the operations proposed are against the Matabele, and, therefore, the parallel suggested in my hon. Friend's Question does not apply. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/troops-in-south-africa", "section": "troops-in-south-africa", "cue_text": "Cries of \"Order!\"", "preceding_text": " (Northampton) asked whether the hon. Gentleman would keep an account of the cost of these troops, in order to submit the payment of the amounts to the Chartered Company. § *MR. BRODRICK Certainly, every item of the expenditure is carefully registered. § COLONEL McCALMONT asked whether it was not in consequence of the absence of Cavalry at Lang's Neck in 1881 that we lost the Transvaal? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/military-manoeuvres-bill", "section": "military-manoeuvres-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and Opposition cries of \"Oh!\"", "preceding_text": " object should be attained. Unfortunately that object has not been attained, and it is quite impossible for me any longer to allow the Manœuvres Bill to stand between the very important proposals of the Government which have to be dealt with during the remainder of the Session. I will, however, endeavour to see whether it will be possible, by suspending the Twelve o'clock Rule or otherwise—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/military-manoeuvres-bill", "section": "military-manoeuvres-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "impossible for me any longer to allow the Manœuvres Bill to stand between the very important proposals of the Government which have to be dealt with during the remainder of the Session. I will, however, endeavour to see whether it will be possible, by suspending the Twelve o'clock Rule or otherwise—[\"Hear, hear!\" and Opposition cries of \"Oh!\"]—to get the Bill through in time. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/military-manoeuvres-bill", "section": "military-manoeuvres-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "the Government which have to be dealt with during the remainder of the Session. I will, however, endeavour to see whether it will be possible, by suspending the Twelve o'clock Rule or otherwise—[\"Hear, hear!\" and Opposition cries of \"Oh!\"]—to get the Bill through in time. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I ought to say that I am not very sanguine of the issue of any such endeavour on my part. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/military-manoeuvres-bill", "section": "military-manoeuvres-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "t the Bill through in time. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I ought to say that I am not very sanguine of the issue of any such endeavour on my part. [\"Hear, hear!\"] § *MR. E. STRACHEY (Somerset, S.) asked whether it was not the case that the right hon. Gentleman had not given further facilities for passing the Bill than something like five hours for the discussion of this most important Bill. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/military-manoeuvres-bill", "section": "military-manoeuvres-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter.", "preceding_text": " my part. [\"Hear, hear!\"] § *MR. E. STRACHEY (Somerset, S.) asked whether it was not the case that the right hon. Gentleman had not given further facilities for passing the Bill than something like five hours for the discussion of this most important Bill. [\"Hear, hear!\"] § THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY That depends upon what the hon. Gentleman considers to be facilities. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/military-manoeuvres-bill", "section": "military-manoeuvres-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter.", "preceding_text": "§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY That depends upon what the hon. Gentleman considers to be facilities. [\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter. ] I remember one Tuesday which we devoted, as far as the Government can devote a day, to this Bill. It so happened that private business on that afternoon occupied an extraordinary amount of time, especially as far as hon. Members opposite were concerned. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/military-manoeuvres-bill", "section": "military-manoeuvres-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "noon occupied an extraordinary amount of time, especially as far as hon. Members opposite were concerned. [\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter. ] 1533 § COLONEL KENYON-SLANEY asked whether the right hon. Gentleman recognised that the Bill was of first-class importance to the Army, and whether in the circumstances he was prepared to make such provisions for passing the Bill as lay in his power, "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/military-manoeuvres-bill", "section": "military-manoeuvres-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "re concerned. [\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter. ] 1533 § COLONEL KENYON-SLANEY asked whether the right hon. Gentleman recognised that the Bill was of first-class importance to the Army, and whether in the circumstances he was prepared to make such provisions for passing the Bill as lay in his power, [\"Hear, hear!\"] § THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY I am ready to do my very best. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/military-manoeuvres-bill", "section": "military-manoeuvres-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ill was of first-class importance to the Army, and whether in the circumstances he was prepared to make such provisions for passing the Bill as lay in his power, [\"Hear, hear!\"] § THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY I am ready to do my very best. [\"Hear, hear!\"] § MR. H. C. F. LUTTRELL (Devon, Tavistock) asked what that best was— whether it might not be the worst for the House. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/land-law-ireland-bill", "section": "land-law-ireland-bill", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "c1534-5 1534 § MR. JOHN REDMOND (Waterford) asked the right hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury whether he would consider the advisability of facilitating the discussion on the Irish Land Bill this Session by appropriating the remainder of Tuesdays and the whole of Wednesdays to Government business? 1535 § THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY Yes, Sir; I will consider that proposal. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/secretary-for-the-colonies-and-the", "section": "secretary-for-the-colonies-and-the", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "African Republic, when he was made to say, \"The administration is defective and corrupt; the preservation of order, the administration of the police, all the Departments of the State are subject to just criticism\"; and whether, having regard to the important effect which that declaration was likely to have, he intended to afford the House an early day for the discussion of the Transvaal question. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/secretary-for-the-colonies-and-the", "section": "secretary-for-the-colonies-and-the", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "criticism\"; and whether, having regard to the important effect which that declaration was likely to have, he intended to afford the House an early day for the discussion of the Transvaal question. [\"Hear, hear!\"] § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN The private notice of which the hon. Gentleman speaks only reached me a few minutes ago, but at the same time I am perfectly able to answer the Question. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/secretary-for-the-colonies-and-the", "section": "secretary-for-the-colonies-and-the", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "the discussion of the Transvaal question. [\"Hear, hear!\"] § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN The private notice of which the hon. Gentleman speaks only reached me a few minutes ago, but at the same time I am perfectly able to answer the Question. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I have not been able to read the report of my speech in The Times, but I have no doubt that it is, as usual, substantially correct. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/secretary-for-the-colonies-and-the", "section": "secretary-for-the-colonies-and-the", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "e no doubt that it is, as usual, substantially correct. [\"Hear, hear!\"] As regards the particular paragraph to which the hon. Member refers, I would point out to him that it alludes to circumstances and facts which are matters of common report and of common knowledge, and have been so for a long time past, and, therefore, it does not constitute any special ground for urgency of discussion. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/secretary-for-the-colonies-and-the", "section": "secretary-for-the-colonies-and-the", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter.", "preceding_text": "t think that the present is the most convenient time, they will be perfectly ready to put down the Colonial Vote for discussion at an early date. § MR. DALZIEL asked whether the right hon. Gentleman would be prepared to lay any papers upon the Table with 1536 reference to the charge of corruption against the Transvaal Government. § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN That will not be necessary, I think. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/secretary-for-the-colonies-and-the", "section": "secretary-for-the-colonies-and-the", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "nformed that the reply of President Kruger to the invitation of Her Majesty's Government to come to England is on its way, and may arrive at any moment. As soon as it has arrived the situation will, of course, be considered by the Government, and, in all probability, no doubt it will result in my laying upon the Table the whole of the correspondence which has passed with reference to the subject. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/secretary-for-the-colonies-and-the", "section": "secretary-for-the-colonies-and-the", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "course, be considered by the Government, and, in all probability, no doubt it will result in my laying upon the Table the whole of the correspondence which has passed with reference to the subject. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I venture to submit to the House, under these circumstances, that the most convenient time for discussing the subject will be after these papers are in the hands of hon. Members. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/standing-committee-on-law-sittings-of", "section": "standing-committee-on-law-sittings-of", "cue_text": "ironical Opposition cheers", "preceding_text": "sect; SIR JAMES FERGUSSON (Manchester, N. E.) said, that in previous Sessions a sessional Order had been made sanctioning the sitting of Standing Committees during the sitting of the House. This year this was not done and therefore the Motion was necessary. The Bill under the consideration of the Standing Committee on Law had occupied a great deal of time—he did not for a moment say an undue time—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/standing-committee-on-law-sittings-of", "section": "standing-committee-on-law-sittings-of", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ect; Amendment agreed to. § MR. LLOYD-GEORGE moved to leave out the word \"four\" and insert the words \"half-past three.\" § DR. TANNER seconded the Amendment. *MR. J. CARVELL WILLIAMS (Notts, Mansfield) pointed out the inconvenience to which hon. Members had been subjected at the last sitting of the Committee. They had then three times to rush 1540 down to the House to record their votes. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/standing-committee-on-law-sittings-of", "section": "standing-committee-on-law-sittings-of", "cue_text": "A laugh.", "preceding_text": ". As to the remarks about the congestion of business in the Grand Committee, if necessary they could have two Committees, and not rush a particular Bill through the existing Committee to the great inconvenience of Members desiring to do their duty in Committee and attend the House. MR. J. LOWTHER did not desire to express any opinion about the Grand Committees. He had no great experience of them. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/standing-committee-on-law-sittings-of", "section": "standing-committee-on-law-sittings-of", "cue_text": "''Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "LIS (Nottingham, Rushcliffe) said, they had before them a Resolution moved by a Member of the Government in the interests of a Bill promoted by a non-official Member. He must say that so far as he was aware that was perfectly unprecedented. § SIR W. WALROND explained that he put down the Motion at the request of the Chairman of the Committee, to whom he said that he ought to move it himself. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/standing-committee-on-law-sittings-of", "section": "standing-committee-on-law-sittings-of", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "y 1892, a Member of the Government moved a similar Motion. Mr. JOHN ELLIS and OTHERS It was a Government Bill. § SIR W. WALROND was not sure about that. § SIR H. CAMPBELL - BANNERMAN (Stirling Burghs) Oh! Yes, it 1541 was—that is my recollection. The Bill was managed by the present Attorney General. § THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER It was not a Government Bill for all that. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/standing-committee-on-law-sittings-of", "section": "standing-committee-on-law-sittings-of", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "machinery of the Grand Committees thrown into disorder. It was like a goods train breaking down on the line and blocking more important traffic. It added to the poignancy of the case that Members in case of a Division had to come from the other side of Westminster Hall. He feared that half-past three would not accomplish his hon. Friend's purpose. § MR. LLOYD-GEORGE I have another Amendment. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/standing-committee-on-law-sittings-of", "section": "standing-committee-on-law-sittings-of", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " wished to point out that if the Committee sat at inconvenient times the experience of last year would be repeated. § DR. TANNER rose to address the House, but § *MR. SPEAKER said, the hon. Member has spoken once; he seconded the Amendment. § DR. TANNER No, Sir. § *MR. SPEAKER Several hon. Members rose at the same time, and I selected the hon. Member for Mid. Cork as seconder. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "cheers", "preceding_text": "eral questions raised by the Budget. I am glad to-night to be able to approach the subject without being influenced by the glamour of the 1544 Chancellor of the Exchequer's eloquence. The right hon. Gentleman's statement, I am bound to repeat, was one of the clearest and most lucid, interesting and eloquent, I have heard since I have been a Member of this House from a Chancellor of the Exchequer— "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "ng taxation to continue, of lOl¾ millions. Now, the first question I should like to ask the Committee is this, seeing that the 1545 estimate of revenue based upon the taxation of last year will not only meet the expenditure but will produce 1¾ million more, whether the first claim upon the Government and the House is not the claim of the taxpayer for relief from some of his burdens. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " Income Tax. It was estimated to produce £15,500,000; it has produced considerably more this year, notwithstanding the losses by recent allowances. In these circumstances, when taxation allows of an increase of £2,250,000 in expenditure—that is the increase of expenditure in this year which the Chancellor of the Exchequer provides for—I think that the Income Tax payer has a claim for some relief. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " Service. The Income Tax will have to be increased in order to meet this expenditure. But this is not the whole story. There is to be expenditure in yet another direction this year. The Chancellor of the Exchequer has assumed that we are to be in a state of perfect peace, that there is no trouble in any part of the world, and nothing likely to cause us trouble in Egypt or the Soudan, for example. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "llor of the Exchequer, independently of any sum which may have to be found for unexpected contingencies, will have to face this time next year an expenditure of something near £104,000,000. That is why I do not ask the right hon. Gentleman to make any reduction of the Income Tax. In the present position of affairs we cannot afford to reduce taxation, nor can we afford to increase our expenditure. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "or the remarks he made with regard to the question he last alluded to. I can assure him that that question is receiving my anxious consideration. I am no more fond than is the right hon. Gentleman of purchasing Consols at 113 or 114 by way of redemption of debt, and I have given instructions which, I think, certainly have not placed the Government lately as a competitor in the market for Consols. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Hear, hear! \"", "preceding_text": "f redemption of debt, and I have given instructions which, I think, certainly have not placed the Government lately as a competitor in the market for Consols. [ Cheers. ] What else I may be able to do is a matter on which I hope the right hon. Gentleman will allow me to reserve my opinion. I feel the difficulty of the situation, and I wish to be allowed not to say anything further on the subject. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " further on the subject. [Hear, hear! \"] The right 1552 hon. Gentleman has made a very interesting speech, mainly upon the subject of the Income Tax. I think I can remember the day when my right hon. Friend the present First Lord of the Admiralty was able to reduce the Income Tax to 6d., and was criticised by the right hon. Gentleman on that account for having produced a rich man's Budget. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " Committee to the great advance that had been made in the amount the Income Tax payers have to bear of the burdens of the country since the year 1875, as compared with the payers of indirect taxation, that the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Monmouthshire ejaculated, \"Yes, that is equalisation of taxation.\" I am very glad to hear from the Front Bench opposite a plea for the Income Tax payers. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "taxation, that the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Monmouthshire ejaculated, \"Yes, that is equalisation of taxation.\" I am very glad to hear from the Front Bench opposite a plea for the Income Tax payers. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I do not at all agree with the opinion which the right hon. Gentleman rather suggested to me as my own opinion that 8d. should be the normal figure for the Income Tax. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ome Tax payers. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I do not at all agree with the opinion which the right hon. Gentleman rather suggested to me as my own opinion that 8d. should be the normal figure for the Income Tax. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I agree rather with what has been said— that when we are able to reduce it in time of peace we should do so in order to secure a more powerful engine in the time of war. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "e fact. I believe that, to the advantage of the country, my right hon. friend the First Lord of the Admiralty has so arranged his programme of shipbuilding, which, as the right hon. Gentleman very well knows, forms a very important part of the Navy Estimates, that the sum borne on the Estimates on that account for the current year will be very considerably larger than that required for next year. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "stimates. I admit that on one point, with regard to the Army Estimates, the right hon. Gentleman was right. Last year we took a supplementary Estimate of nearly half-a-million for paying the Volunteer capitation grant up to date, and that relieved the present year of £250,000—a sum which next year will have to bear. But we expect to make a far larger saving than that amount on the Navy Estimates. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "went on from these minor criticisms to accuse me of not having provided in my estimate of expenditure for the year for similar expenditure to that which was incurred between the year 1884 and the year 1885 by the Government of Mr. Gladstone in the Soudan. The right hon. Gentleman was perfectly justified in saying that I have a very lively recollection of that time, as I have no doubt he has also. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "t he has also. [ Cheers. ] But I can assure him that we do not intend to imitate a policy which led to an expenditure of £7,000,000 in the Soudan and, I think, £11,000,000 subsequently under a Vote of Credit, which, if reasonable skill had been exercised in our diplomacy, never ought to have been wanted at all, for matters connected with the dispute with Russia with regard to the Afghan frontier. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "cheers", "preceding_text": "nk, £11,000,000 subsequently under a Vote of Credit, which, if reasonable skill had been exercised in our diplomacy, never ought to have been wanted at all, for matters connected with the dispute with Russia with regard to the Afghan frontier. [ Cheers. ] I have not calculated upon the expenditure of any great amount in the current year in military operations, as I believe they used to be called— "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "lt that he could not make any reasonable charge against me on that ground. [\"Hear, 1554 hear!\"] It is not at all probable that any charge beyond a charge for the movement of some additional force from England to the Cape can come upon this country in respect of South Africa, for the cost of the troops sent to the territories of the Chartered Company is to be borne by the Chartered Company. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "me additional force from England to the Cape can come upon this country in respect of South Africa, for the cost of the troops sent to the territories of the Chartered Company is to be borne by the Chartered Company. [\"Hear, hear!\"] But with regard to Egypt the right hon. Gentleman spoke of enormous military preparations. I do not know of any enormous military preparations in this country. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear! \"", "preceding_text": "ry. [ Cheers. ] Where does the right hon. Gentleman get his information from? He said there were enormous military preparations going on. There is no such thing. The Egyptian Government have undertaken this expedition with their own forces and at their own cost, and there is no necessity for military preparations here and no obligation upon mo to provide for any large expenditure on that account. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "be imposed on us in connection with the dispatch of special service officers or the movement of the British troops now in Egypt, but I, at any rate, have no reason to anticipate that any of the terrible prognostications of the right hon. Gentleman will be fulfilled, and I can assure him I have gone into this question with a full and lively recollection of the follies perpetrated in 1884 and 1885. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " and I can assure him I have gone into this question with a full and lively recollection of the follies perpetrated in 1884 and 1885. [ Cheers. ] I think I have now dealt with the arguments that have been put before the Committee by the right hon. Gentleman, and I do not wish to detain the Committee; any further, but of course I should be prepared to answer any matter he may think I have omitted. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "e I should be prepared to answer any matter he may think I have omitted. [\"Hear, hear!\"] § *SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT (Monmouthshire, W.) With regard to the question which my right hon. Friend behind me has raised on the payment of the National debt, I should have been more satisfied if he had told us what his own plan was for paying off the National Debt if not by the purchase of Consols. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "oes not diminish the National Debt, and as regards the Savings Bank, I should always oppose any security except Consols being held, because sometimes people raise an alarm as to what would happen if there was a large run on the Savings Bank and a desire on the part of the investors to take out their investments. Everybody knows that in a time of panic the only really saleable security is Consols— "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "#x0021;\"]—and therefore, if you invest in any other security, you place yourselves in a position of peril with reference to a very large sum of money at call, amounting to nearly £150,000,000. Bankers are always casting it in the teeth of the Government that they hold no reserve against their deposits, and the least the Government can do is to hold their deposits in the highest class of security. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " in a position of peril with reference to a very large sum of money at call, amounting to nearly £150,000,000. Bankers are always casting it in the teeth of the Government that they hold no reserve against their deposits, and the least the Government can do is to hold their deposits in the highest class of security. [\"Hear, hear!\"] That ought to be the rule in reference to this department. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "sfied with the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer that he will consider what should be done during such an exceptional period. I hope that nothing that has been said or done will deter the present Chancellor of the Exchequer or any other Chancellor of the Exchequer from devoting a moderate sum of money annually to the discharge of the National Debt, whatever may be the price of Consols. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Cries of \"No.\"", "preceding_text": "erable extent in the present Budget, and the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer admits that it has been done to the amount of £250,000 in the Volunteer Votes. The right hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Admiralty has started a number of new ships, and I was extremely astonished when I was told that they were to cost less in the second and in the third years than in the first. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "man the Chancellor of the Exchequer admits that it has been done to the amount of £250,000 in the Volunteer Votes. The right hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Admiralty has started a number of new ships, and I was extremely astonished when I was told that they were to cost less in the second and in the third years than in the first. [ Cries of \"No.\"] Then we ought to have the matter explained. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " upon the ships would be much larger. I met that point by the answer that in the Death Duties I had introduced a new tax which in the next and third years would yield more money to meet any increased expenditure on the Navy in those years. But where are the present provisions to meet the increased expenditure in future years? The right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer has made none. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Cheers and laughter.", "preceding_text": "uced a new tax which in the next and third years would yield more money to meet any increased expenditure on the Navy in those years. But where are the present provisions to meet the increased expenditure in future years? The right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer has made none. [\"Hear, hear!\"] He has given the whole of his money away to the hon. Gentlemen who sit behind him. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter.", "preceding_text": " much in contradiction to all that we have been told before. However, at 1557 present I am assured that, notwithstanding the immense addition to the shipbuilding programme the expenditure will be less in the year 1897–98 than it will be in the year 1896–7. There is no denying the truth of the old Scotch saying that \"bachelors' bairns are all good children because they are not born.\" "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " of 1896–97 upon which we can draw for our naval expenditure. The first point is that the expenditure of 1896–97 is less than it appears to be by the amount which has been borrowed from the surplus of 1895–96. The second point is that in the provisions made this year the expenditure of 1897–98 must be very much larger than that of 1896–97. That cannot be denied. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "be some £500,000 or £600,000 more. Thus we have a million and a half additional expenditure in 1897–98 for which no provision has been made. The right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer is giving away his money, and yet by the legislation of this year the Government are to incur an additional expenditure in the year 1897–98, for which no provision whatever has been made. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "nless the Government succeed in lowering the standard, and so effect a decrease of expenditure, there is certain to be an automatic growth of expenditure under that head which will bring the increased expenditure of 1897–98 to at least two millions. The right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer tells us that we are to expect that no Imperial money is to be spent in South Africa. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "1897–98 to at least two millions. The right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer tells us that we are to expect that no Imperial money is to be spent in South Africa. [\"Hear, hear!\"] He assures us that we shall have no Imperial expenditure in South Africa because the Chartered Company are to pay the whole of the 1558 costs. For my part I confess I do not like the security. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Cries of \"No.\"", "preceding_text": "r my part I confess I do not like the security. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I have very grave doubts about the financial position of the Chartered Company in regard to the matter. After what has happened in Matabeleland and Mashonaland, where is the Chartered Company to get its income from? All the capital of those persons who are shut up in Buluwayo which has been invested in the land will have gone. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear,\" and cries of \"Oh!\"", "preceding_text": "d Company in regard to the matter. After what has happened in Matabeleland and Mashonaland, where is the Chartered Company to get its income from? All the capital of those persons who are shut up in Buluwayo which has been invested in the land will have gone. [ Cries of \"No.\"] How much do you suppose of that capital will remain after the land has been harried by the Matabele? Why, nothing at all. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": ". [ Cries of \"No.\"] How much do you suppose of that capital will remain after the land has been harried by the Matabele? Why, nothing at all. [\"Hear, hear,\" and cries of \"Oh!\"] Therefore, the assurance the right hon. Gentleman gives us that the Chartered Company will be able to pay the costs of what has happened in their territory does not appear to me to amount to a satisfactory security. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "y the costs of what has happened in their territory does not appear to me to amount to a satisfactory security. [\"Hear, hear!\"] However, I do take a considerable comfort from the assurance of the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer that, as far as he is concerned, there is to be no Imperial expenditure in South Africa. That is a declaration which I hope will be adhered to. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "n the Chancellor of the Exchequer is a man who does not say things without the determination to adhere to them, and we may therefore take his statement as a declaration on the part of the Government through the mouth of the right hon. Gentleman that no Imperial money is to be spent upon the present state of things in South Africa. I am not speaking of Metabeleland only, but of the Transvaal also. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " be spent upon the present state of things in South Africa. I am not speaking of Metabeleland only, but of the Transvaal also. [\"Hear, hear!\"] Beyond the small expenditure to which the right hon. Gentleman has alluded, we hear with satisfaction the assurance that there is to be no Imperial expenditure in South Africa arising out of the present condition of things in that part of the world. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ht hon. Gentleman has alluded, we hear with satisfaction the assurance that there is to be no Imperial expenditure in South Africa arising out of the present condition of things in that part of the world. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I accept, also, with satisfaction the right hon. Gentleman's announcement that there is to be nothing but a trifling expenditure of Imperial money in Egypt or on the Nile. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " no Imperial expenditure in South Africa arising out of the present condition of things in that part of the world. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I accept, also, with satisfaction the right hon. Gentleman's announcement that there is to be nothing but a trifling expenditure of Imperial money in Egypt or on the Nile. [\"Hear, hear!\"] That, again, is a declaration which we may note with satisfaction. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "t a trifling expenditure of Imperial money in Egypt or on the Nile. [\"Hear, hear!\"] That, again, is a declaration which we may note with satisfaction. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I hope that it will go forth to what I may call the Jingo Press of this country that at last we have got a declaration of policy on the part of the Government 1559 which is a tangible one, and which we can lay hold of. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Cheers and cries of \"Oh!\"", "preceding_text": "declaration which we may note with satisfaction. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I hope that it will go forth to what I may call the Jingo Press of this country that at last we have got a declaration of policy on the part of the Government 1559 which is a tangible one, and which we can lay hold of. [\"Hear, hear!\"] All that we have heard before in relation, to this question has been slippery enough. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter.", "preceding_text": "ry that at last we have got a declaration of policy on the part of the Government 1559 which is a tangible one, and which we can lay hold of. [\"Hear, hear!\"] All that we have heard before in relation, to this question has been slippery enough. [ Cheers and cries of \"Oh!\"] If the word \"slippery\" is considered offensive, I will withdraw it, and will substitute the word \"vague\" for it. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "substitute the word \"vague\" for it. [\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter. ] Up to this time we have heard nothing that we could lay hold of as to what are the intentions of the Government, but now at all events we have it that the conquest of the Soudan is to be done for half a million of Egyptian money. § THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER I did not say anything about the conquest of the Soudan. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter.", "preceding_text": "his time we have heard nothing that we could lay hold of as to what are the intentions of the Government, but now at all events we have it that the conquest of the Soudan is to be done for half a million of Egyptian money. § THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER I did not say anything about the conquest of the Soudan. [ Cheers. ] § *SIR W. HARCOURT Well, then, that is still more satisfactory. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "done for half a million of Egyptian money. § THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER I did not say anything about the conquest of the Soudan. [ Cheers. ] § *SIR W. HARCOURT Well, then, that is still more satisfactory. [\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter. ] At all events, what I will call the \"advance limited by resistance\" will cost not more than £500,000, and that is to be Egyptian money alone. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " call the \"advance limited by resistance\" will cost not more than £500,000, and that is to be Egyptian money alone. [ Cheers. ] That is a satisfactory declaration. I hope that the delusion of those who talk of the reconquest of the Soudan and of our having fleets and battalions on the Nile will be dispelled by the satisfactory statement of the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "he Nile will be dispelled by the satisfactory statement of the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer. [\"Hear, hear!\"] At all events, I am very happy to hear from the right hon. Gentleman a disclaimer of any notion that the Government intend to carry out the rash and foolish, and, I will add, wicked policy with which people had credited—or rather discredited — the Government. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "he right hon. Gentleman a disclaimer of any notion that the Government intend to carry out the rash and foolish, and, I will add, wicked policy with which people had credited—or rather discredited — the Government. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I do think, from that point of view, that we have obtained a declaration from Her Majesty's Government which will give great satisfaction throughout the country. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "d be more applicable, should be introduced into our financial system; but he concluded his very able speech without enlightening the country as to the source from which relief would come. The right hon. Gentleman went on to say that under the present system the indirect taxpayer was very moderately burdened if he neither drank or smoked. He shared in that benefit in regard to the latter practice. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "he propertied classes in regard to their contribution to the revenue of the State. His right hon. Friend had made use of the expressions the propertied classes and the consuming classes. He should like to know what was meant by those terms, and whether the consuming classes meant the non payers of Income Tax. § THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER I suppose we all belong to the consuming classes. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "ght hon. Friend had made use of the expressions the propertied classes and the consuming classes. He should like to know what was meant by those terms, and whether the consuming classes meant the non payers of Income Tax. § THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER I suppose we all belong to the consuming classes. [\"Hear, hear!\"] Some are foolish enough to consume tobacco, and others are wiser. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "he Chancellor of the Exchequer of millions if he was only willing to accept them. The House of Commons was distinctly invited by the right hon. Gentleman to reconsider our entire financial system, and he must obviously have had it in his mind that at some future time they 1563 must have recourse to some other source of revenue. That source, he unhesitatingly maintained, must be indirect taxation. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Cries of \"No, no!\"", "preceding_text": "source to which they ought to look for an augmentation of the revenue. In taxing barley they would not be taxing what they were told in clap-trap phraseology was the food of the people. Ground flour ought in the interests of the community to be subjected to an impost duty on entering this country, for the importation of ground flour had added considerably to the want of employment in the country. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "l of the German people they would be doing more for true economy. § *MR. DISRAELI (Cheshire, Altrincham) said, he happened to represent a part of one county and to live in another county, and he could inform the hon. Member that the giving of the two millions had been hailed with the greatest delight. They had, perhaps, an exaggerated idea of what the Chancellor of the Exchequer did for them—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "hey had, perhaps, an exaggerated idea of what the Chancellor of the Exchequer did for them—[\"hear, hear!\"]—but they had that feeling of encouragement which, he thought, would do more for them than anything that the Chancellor of the Exchequer could give them. They had had a very interesting speech from the Member for Thanet, with the old-fashioned ring, and which appealed to his own heart. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "his he attributed to the system of bounties, which were undermining some of the flourishing industries here. As to the relief given to the agricultural population, he believed the benefit would be felt throughout the country and filter through the small villages. Other trades might have them but the land never would, and it was the duty of the Government to tend and foster it as much as possible. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " benefit from the proposal, it appeared to him that it was proposed to tax 7,000,000 of labourers for the benefit of 1,000,000. He did not believe the agricultural labourer would get a penny of this money. The greater part of it would go into the pockets of the farmers temporarily, but permanently into the pockets of the landlords. For these reasons he objected to the proposals of the Government. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "re obliged to have recourse to a covering note, which was not a legal document, and could not be produced in court, hut simply rested upon the honour of the parties. If the Chancellor of the Exchequer could not remove the duty altogether, it would be desirable that there should be one fixed stamp which might be attached to the document he had referred to and make it produceable in a court of law. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "case the widow paid Estate Duty, but no further duty was payable on her death. He suggested that it might be possible to postpone the payment of the duty during the life of the widow. The result would be that the estate would be left intact during the period when the children were being brought up and educated. He begged to submit these two points to the consideration of the right hon. Gentleman. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "aud. There were several instances of well-to-do persons who held large amounts in those Savings Banks by depositing in several places under different names, and who thereby obtained that comparatively high rate of interest which was intended by the Government as an encouragement to thrift amongst the poorer classes. That was a matter which, he thought, should have the attention of the Government. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Nationalist cries of \"No!\"", "preceding_text": "circles in the country there was a growing feeling that direct taxation had gone almost as far as it should go at the present time, and that the attention of Chancellors of the Exchequer should be now turned to indirect taxation. He would remind the hon. Member for Islington that the principal source of taxation in Ireland was from the duty upon whisky made in Ireland, but drunk in Great Britain— "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " rich and indirect entirely on the poor. That was, perhaps, not the way in which, in the ultimate result, taxation fell. They had to remember the great matters of the consumption of such articles as tea, tobacco, spirits, wine, etc., and it was an absolutely unquestionable fact that in consequence of their fiscal system, the burden fell infinitely heavier on the poorer than on the richer classes. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ed to be the only means of bringing that charge of personalty on to the local rates. It was obviously unfair occupiers should have the burden of the local rates and personalty escape. He was also very glad that this grant was not to be given in lump sums to districts, but in proportion to the rates that districts raised. There was nothing so wasteful as granting public money to district councils. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "to equal the amount raised locally. He hoped the grant would be only temporary, and that the whole question of local rates would be considered. He hoped and believed there would be ample means in the possession of the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the coming year, out of a reasonable and proper saving on the Navy expenditure, without in any way diminishing the power or efficiency of the country. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "etween the position of Ireland and Great Britain with regard to taxation, and I think that, with the zeal of a gentleman who has written a book on the subject, he rather exaggerated the case which he put before the Committee. He went so far as to say, if I heard him rightly, that there were no balances to the credit of anybody in the Banks in Ireland. § *MR. LOUGH I did not mean to say that. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER I think the balances are pretty considerable, and I hope and believe they will be considerably increased. Of course, anybody who looks at the statistics, which are annually published, of the relative personal wealth of Ireland and of Great Britain that is subject to Income Tax or to Death Duties, will at once see, as we all know, that Ireland is a poorer county than England "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear.\"", "preceding_text": " of all the people in the country, including those below as well as those above the Income Tax level, except £12 a year, as the taxable income of the country. I should very much like to see what would happen to a Chancellor of the Exchequer who proposed an Income Tax on the income of that part of the population who do not pay Income Tax on the basis that you may tax everybody's income except £12. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "would now venture to ask the Committee to come to a conclusion of this Debate. We have debated these Budget Resolutions now for two nights, and it is very desirable that this Resolution, and the final and general Resolution, on which, I think, there is never any Debate, should be passed this evening in order that we may take the Report to-morrow, and that I may able to introduce the Budget Bill . "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "h, I think, there is never any Debate, should be passed this evening in order that we may take the Report to-morrow, and that I may able to introduce the Budget Bill . [\"Hear, hear!\"] The Committee are aware that my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House hopes to be able to take the Second Reading of the Bill on Thursday next, when, of course, full opportunity for discussion will arise. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers.", "preceding_text": " United Kingdom was brought from China and places other than our dependencies. The fact he wished to lay stress upon was that it was essential in considering the fiscal system of the United Kingdom that they should consider it as a whole. The Budget simply continued an 8d. in the pound Income Tax on the middle class in London and elsewhere, and gave, to some extent, an advantage to the landlords. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Laughter and cheers.", "preceding_text": " in the interests of the poor men whom he represented, he was compelled to protest against it. He said this Budget was not conceived with a notion of filling the hungry with good things and sending the rich empty away—[\"Oh!\"]—it was conceived rather with a desire to give to those who have, so that they may have more abundantly, and taking away from him who hath not even that which he hath. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/apr/23", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/apr/23/income-tax", "section": "income-tax", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "sing opinions like those of the last speaker would be on the Second Reading of the Bill. § MR. COURTENAY WARNER said it had been stated, with reference to the increase in the Navy, that the Estimates would not be so large next year. Did this mean that in the dockyards and Government factories a large number of hands would be discharged? § THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER No, it does not. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/apr/23", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/apr/23/locomotives-on-highways-bill-hl", "section": "locomotives-on-highways-bill-hl", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "e who could afford these light locomotives (though they were expensive) to encourage manufacturers, and by degrees produce that experience which at present the Local Government Board lacked. He should be prepared to consider any Amendments their Lordships might suggest, and he would bring them under the notice of the President of the Local Government Board, who would give every attention to them. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/apr/23", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/apr/23/locomotives-on-highways-bill-hl", "section": "locomotives-on-highways-bill-hl", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " light railways as much as for heavy ones, although not at the same expense. The cost of construction, it was said, would be £3,000 a mile. That, to his mind, would stop the whole thing, and it would be a pity to make a railway which would be nothing but a failure. He did not know if he was over-sanguine, but he thought these light locomotives might be of the very greatest benefit to the farmers. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/apr/23", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/apr/23/locomotives-on-highways-bill-hl", "section": "locomotives-on-highways-bill-hl", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "rom the farms to the main roads, and he did not see why the farmer or his wife or servants should not go down to this lane end to meet the light locomotive drawing that which would take his light produce to the market or nearest railway station. If the Bill facilitated the transit of farm produce from the farm to the market town or railway station it would fill a great void and meet a great want. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "section": "reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "oria Gaol. I have already on two occasions sent a message to those gentlemen urging them to adopt the same course as adopted by their fellow prisoners and make their own petition to the Transvaal Government. If they do this I shall, of course, be glad to support them in any way in my power, but if they refuse, from what I consider to be mistaken notions of dignity, I do not think I can interfere. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "section": "reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "whether he is aware that a third member of the Reform Committee has also written to the papers entirely confirming the statement of the other two Gentlemen; whether there is in his possession a telegram— § *MR. SPEAKER Order, order! the hon. Member is now replying to the answer given by the right hon. Gentleman. These are matters which should 392 form the subject of a separate interrogation. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "section": "reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "cue_text": "\"Order, order!\"", "preceding_text": "y confirming the statement of the other two Gentlemen; whether there is in his possession a telegram— § *MR. SPEAKER Order, order! the hon. Member is now replying to the answer given by the right hon. Gentleman. These are matters which should 392 form the subject of a separate interrogation. [ Cheers. ] § SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT These questions do directly arise out of my first question "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "section": "reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "not to take any part in the political affairs of the Transvaal, he could represent in a friendly way to President Kruger that the end he wished to attain would be better gained by banishing them from the Republic. MR. McLEOD asked whether the Mr. Phillips in question was not the Mr. Phillips who bolted from his trial at Pretoria. § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN No, no; Mr. Phillips did not bolt at all. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "section": "reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " have forgotten that the conditions imposed on the other gentlemen involved the alternative, either that they were to give an assurance that they would not take further part in political affairs in the Transvaal, or that they were to be banished. Of course, if these gentlemen preferred banishment to giving the assurance asked for, there was nothing to prevent them from accepting that alternative. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "section": "reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "cue_text": "Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "accepting that alternative. [\"Hear, hear!\"] § CAPTAIN BETHELL Does that offer still hold good? § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN These gentlemen have absolutely refused to make any application to the Transvaal Government in the matter, but if they make such an application as was made by their colleagues and companions in imprisonment, I have no doubt that the same conditions will be offered to them. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "section": "reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter .", "preceding_text": "man to communicate to the House the Dispatch in which Sir J. De Wet denies the truth of these assertions? 393 § *MR. SPEAKER I have not ruled such a question to be out of order. I ruled out of order a long series of questions which were in the nature of a reply to the answer of the right hon. Gentleman. ( Cheers ). § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN My hon. friend has not paid attention to my answer. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "section": "reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "d out of order a long series of questions which were in the nature of a reply to the answer of the right hon. Gentleman. ( Cheers ). § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN My hon. friend has not paid attention to my answer. [\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter .] I told him that I had no official confirmation from Sir J. De Wet on the subject, but that I took his denial from the letter he wrote to the Saturday Review. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "section": "reform-committee-prisoners-pretoria", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ghter .] I told him that I had no official confirmation from Sir J. De Wet on the subject, but that I took his denial from the letter he wrote to the Saturday Review. [\"Hear, hear!\"] § SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT Was it to that letter that the right hon. Gentleman referred the other day when he said that Sir J. De Wet had denied the truth of these assertions? § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN Certainly. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/anderson-v-gorrie-and-others", "section": "anderson-v-gorrie-and-others", "cue_text": "\" Hear, hear.\"", "preceding_text": "s of this case; but I do not agree that the second paragraph of the question represents the true view of the law as laid down by the Judges. In my opinion the law does not require amendment in this respect. It has remained the same for a great many years, and I am not aware that any cases of injustice have been brought before the public. It is absolutely necessary that Judges should be protected. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/south-african-committee", "section": "south-african-committee", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "J. BALFOUR, Manchester, E.) As the hon. Gentleman is probably aware, an impartial Select Committee to deal with this subject is not to be sought for in the same sense as an impartial Committee appointed to deal with a private Bill. If the House desired that the matter should be dealt with by a judicial tribunal, it ought to have taken steps to secure that it should be sent to a judicial tribunal. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/south-african-committee", "section": "south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "ial tribunal, it ought to have taken steps to secure that it should be sent to a judicial tribunal. [\"Hear, hear!\"] 397 I have not made the inquiries suggested in the Question, and I have made no attempt to interfere with the ordinary way of appointment of a Member notoriously hostile to the company, any more than I should interfere in order to include gentlemen who are notoriously in its favour. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/business-of-the-house", "section": "business-of-the-house", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "f the Government business had been disposed of. These Dills have been put down on the understanding that they are absolutely unopposed and that it is the desire of every individual Member of the House that they shall pass. Of course if the Measures are opposed they will not be taken. If they are unopposed, I think that it is only right that they should have a chance of passing through this House. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/british-south-africa-committee-personal", "section": "british-south-africa-committee-personal", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " to him on the subject, and at a time when the constitution of the Committee had been practically settled, was somewhat distasteful, and certainly most unusual. Though he had probably served on as many Select Committees as anyone in the House, he had never yet known such a thing to be done. He thought, under these circumstances, he was entitled to ask the hon. Gentleman to withdraw his Amendment. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "oard interfered on behalf of the future generation of ratepayers, and that was not a matter in which he could make the concession which the hon. Member desired. But, so far as it was possible to do anything in such matters as baths and washhouses, he would give the subject his consideration, and he hoped that probably in another Session he might be in a position to make a more definite statement. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "aused an Inquiry to he made by a Committee into the whole question of its staff and organisation. As soon as the arrangements in regard to the holidays of the officials were concluded, that Inquiry would be proceeded with, and he hoped before Parliament met again after the Recess he should he able to say that there had been considerable improvement in the staff and organisation of the Department. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "me only 50 had got the disease, and they were all of them in the ophthalmic school. If these results could be obtained on a small scale at a place like Hanwell, he saw no reason why it should not be done on a larger scale for all the children in the pauper schools of London. Possibly, also, the question of convalescent homes and their management might be dealt with advantageously in the same way. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "he great schools which were described as barrack schools. Personally he was struck by the advantages of the cottage homes, but whether they should be grouped or isolated required to be carefully considered. He had no doubt that good 417 work had been done by cottage homes which were grouped. Then there was another question raised by the Report, and that was the question of educational inspection. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "e numbers of these children were 8,000, 11,000, and 11,747. The third particular was the number of inmates on June 1, 1896, who had been educated in Poor Law schools and therefore, as some people held, must be imbued with the pauper taint. The number on May 30, 1896, was, roughly speaking, 38,000. Of these 38,000, how many had been educated in pauper schools? That was a very interesting question. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " Return of June 1 there were 435, but from this had to be deducted 232 who were suffering from infirmity, so that out of the total pauper adults the number was only 203. [\"Hear!\"] § MR. HAZELL asked why the Return was limited to the last 30 years. § MR. CHAPLIN could not say. The Return was moved for by the Member for Kensington, who probably asked for the information he desired to get. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ted to the last 30 years. § MR. CHAPLIN could not say. The Return was moved for by the Member for Kensington, who probably asked for the information he desired to get. [\"Hear, hear!\"] These figures might not be conclusive, but they went far to 418 show that the children taught in the pauper schools were not necessarily affected by the pauper taint throughout the whole of their natural lives. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "ildren taught in the pauper schools were not necessarily affected by the pauper taint throughout the whole of their natural lives. [\"Hear, hear!\"] Indeed, it would be a most melancholy thing if it were so. The Report, however, made such a painful impression upon him that as soon as the legislative pressure of his Department abated he took the opportunity of seeing some of the schools for himself. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "t melancholy thing if it were so. The Report, however, made such a painful impression upon him that as soon as the legislative pressure of his Department abated he took the opportunity of seeing some of the schools for himself. [ Cheers. ] He took the utmost care in every case that his visit should be unexpected; so much so that on one occasion he had the greatest difficulty in getting in at all. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ent abated he took the opportunity of seeing some of the schools for himself. [ Cheers. ] He took the utmost care in every case that his visit should be unexpected; so much so that on one occasion he had the greatest difficulty in getting in at all. [ Laughter. ] The impression made on his mind by personal inspection was very widely different from the impression made by the perusal of the Report, "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Laughter and \"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "\"] He admitted that there was room for great improvement and great reform; but, even so, he was greatly surprised at what he saw after having read these Reports. There was the healthy appearance of the children. He saw nothing to confirm what he read as to the sluggish, sullen, dull appearance of the boys and their dislike of play. In the cricket ground he saw a number of promising young bowlers. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Cheers and laughter.", "preceding_text": "omising young bowlers. [ Laughter and \"Hear, hear!\"] With regard to their carelessness, obstinacy, and ignorance of common things, and a total absence of a notion of the value of money, when he arrived at the station he found two of the boys there. They readily answered his questions, and when he gave them 1d. each they had not the slightest difficulty in making their way to an automatic machine. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "e should regard it as a very important factor in the improvement of the lot of some of these children. But in all the circumstances, having endeavoured to put the case as fairly as he could, he thought he was justified in asking the Committee on this occasion to excuse him from either attempting to lay down a definite policy on the subject or of giving any more definite pledges than he had given. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear.\"", "preceding_text": "ign goods would become increasingly difficult. The Local Authority would undertake that if the loan was granted, and if they should hereafter fail to satisfy the requirements of the Board with regard to the sewage effluent, then they would face the expenditure which was now attempted to be forced upon them. He hoped the right hon. Gentleman would allow them to have the loan on that understanding. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "volved a mere question of administration and the various proposals could be carried into effect without further legislation. With regard to the question of the number of 430 parish electors who were entitled to demand a poll at a parish council election, he might say that next year no regulation would be made and the provision of the Act would be interpreted by the Chairman of the parish meeting. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-v", "section": "class-v", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ire, Southport), in reply, thanked his hon. Friend the Member for Islington for the generous tribute he had paid to the Foreign Office. He also thanked him for the aid which the great commercial associations of which he was the spokesman had always given to that Department. It seemed right there should be this frank and happy co-operation between the Government and those independent organisations—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-v", "section": "class-v", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "d a very superior man occupying a good position. On the other hand, there was the work of more directly pushing British wares; and in this connection he might be permitted to suggest that much more might be done by commercial associations as well as by private firms in sending out to foreign countries men of that description. There was an increasing need for commercial travellers on the Continent—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-v", "section": "class-v", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "orld, the time and attention of our Consuls were enormously occupied by shipping matters. It was a little hard that a Consul at some great commercial port, whose whole time was taken up with consular duties, should be expected to bestow almost undivided attention on the commercial aspect of his duties also. That marked the great difference between a British Consul and a German or American Consul. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-v", "section": "class-v", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "sul ought to be devoted to pushing their particular interests or supplying them with the information they desired. With regard to the better distribution of Consuls and the excess of Consular representation 443 in parts of the world where their services were not required, he could only say that from his experience in the Foreign Office it was almost as difficult to abolish posts as to create them—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/power-for-treasury-to-guarantee-interest", "section": "power-for-treasury-to-guarantee-interest", "cue_text": "cheers", "preceding_text": "ussion of the Amendment in Committee. The Amendment divided itself into three heads, and each followed the lines of the Light Railways Bill . He could not see why the Government should refuse to apply to Scotland provisions which they thought good enough for England. § *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said he could only reply to the hon. Member as he had replied on several previous occasions—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/larceny-bill", "section": "larceny-bill", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " any property, knowing it to have been stolen outside the United Kingdom, he shall be liable to penal servitude for any term not less than three years and not more than seven years. There were two classes of property which had not been sufficiently considered in drawing this very drastic Bill, and he desired to move, to insert after the word \"kingdom\" the words \"other than warlike spoil or loot.\" "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/larceny-bill", "section": "larceny-bill", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "for any term not less than three years and not more than seven years. There were two classes of property which had not been sufficiently considered in drawing this very drastic Bill, and he desired to move, to insert after the word \"kingdom\" the words \"other than warlike spoil or loot.\" [ Laughter. ] § *MR. SPEAKER thought that \"loot\" was hardly a word to introduce into an Act of Parliament. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/larceny-bill", "section": "larceny-bill", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "is Amendment should end at the word \"spoil.\" If it could be proved that King Prempeh's jewels were stolen, those people who bought them at the recent sale would be liable to three or seven years' imprisonment. § THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Sir RICHARD WEBSTER,) Isle of Wight wished to treat the hon. Member with all respect, but he would forgive him for saying that he had made an absurd suggestion. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/larceny-bill", "section": "larceny-bill", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "of the Bill were exactly the same as those of other Larceny Bills. MR. T. M. HEALY said the Bill, as amended by the House of Lords, placed him in a position of great intellectual difficulty. It provided that no person without lawful excuse should receive property knowing it to be stolen. He wanted to know under what conditions one could receive property with lawful excuse knowing it to be stolen? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/larceny-bill", "section": "larceny-bill", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "eceive property knowing it to be stolen. He wanted to know under what conditions one could receive property with lawful excuse knowing it to be stolen? [ Laughter. ] The Bill had not been drafted with the care for which the House of Lords was so distinguished. He was sure, however, there were Irish landlords who could enter into this question of property knowing it to be stolen with lawful excuse—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/power-of-court-to-prohibit-institution", "section": "power-of-court-to-prohibit-institution", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "glish law. For the first time in the history of Parliament a Bill had been brought in practically shutting the doors of all Courts of Justice to particular subjects of the Queen, and that because one individual had made himself somewhat obnoxious in bringing proceedings. The Court already possessed powers to stop proceedings which might be considered to be vexatious. He was opposed to officialism—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/power-of-court-to-prohibit-institution", "section": "power-of-court-to-prohibit-institution", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "t be considered to be vexatious. He was opposed to officialism—[ laughter ]—and he objected on behalf of the people of this country to a Bill which established that the Attorney General, himself an official, might come to the Court and make an application to shut the doors of the Courts to the whole of her Majesty's subjects, because Her Majesty's subjects were naturally inclined to be litigious. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/extent-and-short-title", "section": "extent-and-short-title", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "at no necessity for the Bill had arisen in Ireland. In England there had been three or four cases within the last ten years. MR. T. M. HEALY said it never entered into the mind of anyone to interfere until great people were attacked and put to inconvenience. Then the officers of the State stepped in at once to give protection. Poor men and women might be attacked until they were black in the face—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/extent-and-short-title", "section": "extent-and-short-title", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "all kinds of expense, but nothing would be done. § THE ATTORNEY GENERAL said that these proceedings had during the last few years cost the public a considerable sum in respect of persons whom it was the duty of the public to protect. MR. T. M. HEALY said that the Lord Chancellor and officers like him were in no need of protection, because they were learned in the law and had plenty of money. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/10", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/10/class-iv-1", "section": "class-iv-1", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "tan 458 against the opinions of nine-tenths of the ratepayers; and, as a protest, he moved the reduction of the Vote by £100. § *MR. SPEAKER said that, as the Resolution had been put to the House, the hon. Member could oppose the Vote, but he could not move a reduction. *MR. MCLEOD regretted that his ignorance of the forms of the House had prevented him from interposing at the proper moment. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/advertisements-and-notices", "section": "advertisements-and-notices", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " Commissioners, whether of the Board of Trade or other Department. He was not quite sure whether that confidence was absolutely illimitable. They had had Commissioners for many years past for whom they had the greatest esteem and respect, but still they had not that implicit confidence in them which would allow them to override the wishes of localities without possibility of appeal to Parliament. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/advertisements-and-notices", "section": "advertisements-and-notices", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ear!\"] Under the Bill as it stood three permanent officials, sitting in a room in Downing Street or Whitehall, might entirely override the wishes of the County Council of this great Metropolis—a body, he was aware, which was not altogether popular among their Lordships, but which it could not be denied represented the views of the people of London—on such a matter, say, as the tramways of London. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/advertisements-and-notices", "section": "advertisements-and-notices", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "urge his noble Friend to accept the clause so modified. Without some such provision as this he regarded the clause as likely to overrule the openly-expressed wishes of localities, and therefore as likely to overturn the whole tendency of legislation for the last few years, and largely to neutralise that Local Government Bill in which the President of the Board of Trade took so legitimate a pride. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/advertisements-and-notices", "section": "advertisements-and-notices", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "le manner in which it always represented the wishes of the people of this Metropolis, should turn the House away from the important considerations which were raised by this Amendment. The whole country was not governed by the London County Council, and the parts of the country where light railways would be required were exactly the parts with which the London County Council had very little to do. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/advertisements-and-notices", "section": "advertisements-and-notices", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "his Bill was really required, should be sacrificed in order to meet the requirements of its jealousy. THE EARL OF ROSEBERY hoped the House would not be misled by the phraseology of the noble Marquess. He spoke of the proposal as giving an absolute veto to the local bodies. The clause only sought to give to local bodies 284 the right enjoyed by everybody in this kingdom of an appeal to Parliament. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/confirmation-of-order-by-board-of-trade", "section": "confirmation-of-order-by-board-of-trade", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "t. Then the noble Lord seemed to be rather disturbed by some words in the clause, but he could assure the noble Lord that the clause was a common one. It would be found in many Acts of Parliament, in the Scottish Fisheries Act of last year among others. He was seriously concerned to hear that the noble Lord had such a bad opinion of the House of Commons, and particularly after 12 o'clock at night—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/confirmation-of-order-by-board-of-trade", "section": "confirmation-of-order-by-board-of-trade", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " his Amendment. § *THE EARL OF DUDLEY said the noble Lord had misunderstood him. He never said that the mere laying of the Order on the Table of the House would entail expense, but what he did say was that if the Order, under the, noble Lord's Amendment, should be sent back either to the Board of Trade or the Commissioners to reconstruct or recast, very-great extra expense would be entailed. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/uganda-railway-bill", "section": "uganda-railway-bill", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "he Measure being undertaken before. There are two considerations of important public policy which justify a departure in this case from the ordinary practice of Parliament in respect to rail ways in any part of Her Majesty's possessions. In the first place I believe it is felt that the construction of such a railway would be the most fatal blow to the slave trade which could possibly be delivered—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/uganda-railway-bill", "section": "uganda-railway-bill", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": " of British rule will be extended to it, will be largely increased when we are able to announce that this railway is complete. Financial measures have been taken, so that it will progress, I trust, without delay or change of policy or purpose, and I believe it will have a most beneficial effect in fostering British trade and establishing the newly-born dominion of Great Britain on that continent. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/uganda-railway-bill", "section": "uganda-railway-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "] THE EARL OF ROSEBERY I do not rise to say a single word on the subject of the Measure, partly because 307 it is a Bill purely financial in its character, and, therefore, I take it, outside our competence, and from the more gratifying reason that I fancy that the question of the Uganda railroad is one of those rare but none the less grateful questions on which both sides of the House are agreed. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/uganda-railway-bill", "section": "uganda-railway-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " to Parliament. What I would strongly say is that I believe that, great as your expenditure has been for putting down the slave trade on the coast of Africa, vast as are the efforts you have put forward for the abolition of that horrible traffic all over the world, you will never have struck a blow at it so fatal and direct as the construction of this railway that the Government have set on foot. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/uganda-railway-bill", "section": "uganda-railway-bill", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "t and most painful extent. But I am afraid this is not a difference between cost and estimate, but a great rise in the estimate itself, and I think the cost will rise not 308 disproportionately; and it would have been more gratifying to the House if the Prime Minister had been able to tell us how the increase arises, and had not confined himself to the arguments in which we cordially support him. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/amendment-as-to-improvements", "section": "amendment-as-to-improvements", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ith the Act of Parliament. They would find in the Amendment in his name a draft schedule containing the particulars contained in the earlier part of Clause 1, and also the contents of the pink Paper, but amplified and with an addition which he knew some of his noble Friends were anxious to have made, the addition of a money column showing the rent per acre or class of the different sorts of land. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/exclusion-of-certain-holdings", "section": "exclusion-of-certain-holdings", "cue_text": "Ministerial cries of \"No, no!\"", "preceding_text": " taking into consideration the mistake made in reference to this sub-section. He would just like to say that, though that was one of the objections put before him as to the clause, it was not the chief one, which was the permission to subdivide at all. If he was in order, he would suggest that the consideration of the matter might be put off for an hour or two, or until a later stage of the Bill. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/exclusion-of-certain-holdings", "section": "exclusion-of-certain-holdings", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "gh that was one of the objections put before him as to the clause, it was not the chief one, which was the permission to subdivide at all. If he was in order, he would suggest that the consideration of the matter might be put off for an hour or two, or until a later stage of the Bill. [ Ministerial cries of \"No, no!\"] Under all the circumstances he would be disposed to accept the proposition made—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "section": "turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ere additions to the new clause with regard 326 to turbary and easements. They had not provided for the enforcement of necessary regulations for the exercise of these privileges, and the two Amendments enabled the Court to make arrangements for their being exercised in a manner consistent with the interests of the estate and consistent with the practice and usage which had hitherto been followed. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/ejectments-for-nonpayment-of-rent-in", "section": "ejectments-for-nonpayment-of-rent-in", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ing the hanging gale in the case of a great number of estates. As the clause now stood a landlord would be compelled where a tenant owed one year's rent immediately to take ejectment proceedings. This morning he received a letter from Lord Carlingford, in which that nobleman said the effect would be very mischievous, not so much in the interest of the landlord, but in the interest of the tenants. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/ejectments-for-nonpayment-of-rent-in", "section": "ejectments-for-nonpayment-of-rent-in", "cue_text": "A laugh .", "preceding_text": "payment of the tenants' obligations. If that led to any hardship or ill-feeling no one would, he was sure, regret it more than the noble Lord or himself, but he had found it quite impossible to alter the clause in the direction the noble Earl suggested. § LORD HARLECH thought the case might be met by inserting \"three years\" for \"two years.\" That would include any hanging gale there might be. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/first-schedules-from-of-schedule-for", "section": "first-schedules-from-of-schedule-for", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "pened the Land Courts to the Irish tenants. Since it had been in their Lordships' House some very important Amendments had been made in it. He saw in that morning's papers a document signed by certain leading Irish landlords—it might be said to be a manifesto—and learned that those noble Lords who had been instrumental in carrying Amendments had not intended to wreck the Bill and had not done so. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/first-schedules-from-of-schedule-for", "section": "first-schedules-from-of-schedule-for", "cue_text": "Cries of \"No!\"", "preceding_text": "[ Cheers. ] What was the meaning of wrecking a Bill? If they meant that they had not driven a torpedo into the vessel and scuttled it they might be right. But if they had introduced Measures which would stop the machinery of the ship or had covered the deck with a large amount of wreckage from the fire of the artillery, then, he said, they had waterlogged it if they had not altogether wrecked it. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/first-schedules-from-of-schedule-for", "section": "first-schedules-from-of-schedule-for", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "aying a few words on behalf of himself and those with whom he had worked in the course of the passage of this Measure. The noble Earl who had just sat down had alluded to a letter which he had read in 360 that morning's papers signed by himself and other Irish landlords. The noble Earl said that in that letter they disclaimed any idea of wrecking the Bill. He indorsed that statement most heartily—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/first-schedules-from-of-schedule-for", "section": "first-schedules-from-of-schedule-for", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "utely devoid of those safeguards which not only their Lordships, but the House of Commons and the country, had a right to expect and demand. He therefore maintained that the Division on Clause 1 must be adhered to. Upon that clause the Government simply did what it was their 361 duty to do, and he and his Friends declined to accept the alteration made as any concession whatever to the landowners. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/first-schedules-from-of-schedule-for", "section": "first-schedules-from-of-schedule-for", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "-divided upon a single Amendment, but had done their utmost, he would not say to perfect the Measure, because it was not a perfect Measure, but to remedy the defects with which the Bill came to their Lordships' House. He trusted that their Lordships, having taken up a line upon certain points of the Bill, which they considered of vital importance, would not be induced to give way on those points. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/first-schedules-from-of-schedule-for", "section": "first-schedules-from-of-schedule-for", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "he Bill. They desired to see it accepted in another place, but if alterations were made in another place which their Lordships considered to be unjust to any section of the community in Ireland, or which would render unworkable those parts of the Bill which they thought they had made workable, then he could only trust their Lordships would adhere to the action they had taken during the past week. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/10", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/10/first-schedules-from-of-schedule-for", "section": "first-schedules-from-of-schedule-for", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "orkable those parts of the Bill which they thought they had made workable, then he could only trust their Lordships would adhere to the action they had taken during the past week. [\"Hear, hear!\"] He sincerely trusted to see the Measure placed on the Statute-book, but if the Bill was not carried into law it would not be the fault of those who had the real benefit and happiness of Ireland at heart. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-i", "section": "class-i", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "in asking the right hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade to give his careful consideration to this very important matter. He had been informed that the London and North Western Railway Company had offered to contribute towards the expenses that might be incurred in blowing up these Platters Rocks. He trusted that the Government would take steps to remove this obstacle to navigation. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-i", "section": "class-i", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "devised so as to allow vessels drawing 15 or 16 feet of water to pass safely into the inner; harbour. If he could obtain satisfactory information on the subject he should be glad to approach his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer upon the matter with the view of ascertaining whether money would be forthcoming for the purpose of carrying out the projected improvement in the harbour. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-i", "section": "class-i", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ing whether money would be forthcoming for the purpose of carrying out the projected improvement in the harbour. [\"Hear, hear!\"] Further inquiry had been directed to be made as to the proposal of the London and North Western Railway Company. He hoped to visit Holyhead harbour himself as soon as his other engagements would permit, and then he should be able to see for himself how the matter stood. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "explained that, as the analysis might be the subject of criminal proceedings, he did not see his way to simplifying the procedure in taking the samples. As to the complaint from Welsh-speaking districts as to the forms for the agricultural returns not being printed in the Welsh language, this was the first time that the complaint had been made to him, but he should give it his personal attention. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "eir proficiency in Celtic studies. Anyone who chose might read up books on the literature of Wales and its language, but none could possibly give fair play to its history. Wales stood in need of books written by scholars, with a sound knowledge of the Welsh language, who could satisfy the country with the results of a critical examination of facts bearing upon Wales at every epoch of its history. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": " history. [\"Hear, hear!\"] It was true there were several books having pretentions of telling the country's story. It was but fair to say that, with one or two exceptions, their writers knew next to nothing of what they wrote; they were ignorant of the Welsh language, and lacked sympathy with the life of the nation. Some of them supplied great hunks of fancy mixed with homoeopathic doses of facts. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "fair to say that, with one or two exceptions, their writers knew next to nothing of what they wrote; they were ignorant of the Welsh language, and lacked sympathy with the life of the nation. Some of them supplied great hunks of fancy mixed with homoeopathic doses of facts. [ Laughter .] They treated place names—ancient and modern—with such carelessness as to utterly spoil their sense and beauty. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "thic doses of facts. [ Laughter .] They treated place names—ancient and modern—with such carelessness as to utterly spoil their sense and beauty. [ Laughter .] It was hopeless to expect a good text-book of history without first of all securing a competent man in the Public Record Office who should catalogue and calendar Welsh documents. The request for such a one was both moderate and reasonable. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " were forthcoming to classify and index these records, and to make a précis of the most important of them, it would prove an unspeakable boon to the students of research, and not only to Welsh students, but to all who were cognisant of the extreme value of possessing a minute and an accurate knowledge of a nation's history, extending from the primitive times to its periods of civilisation. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ecords, and to make a précis of the most important of them, it would prove an unspeakable boon to the students of research, and not only to Welsh students, but to all who were cognisant of the extreme value of possessing a minute and an accurate knowledge of a nation's history, extending from the primitive times to its periods of civilisation. [\"Hear, hear!\"] This was not a Party question. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " students, but to all who were cognisant of the extreme value of possessing a minute and an accurate knowledge of a nation's history, extending from the primitive times to its periods of civilisation. [\"Hear, hear!\"] This was not a Party question. [\"Hear, hear!\"] It commended itself to every intelligent mind, and he was glad to have the sympathy of every part of the House with him on the subject. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " Record Office. He had been compelled to confess that he had to rest content with gleanings, 511 that the harvest was beyond his reach, as he was unfurnished with the necessary knowledge to gather it in. He could not attempt to exhaust the rich materials which lay there for the writing of Welsh history, nor could their contents, he said, be rightly appreciated except by competent Celtic scholars. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "he had shown Welsh Members when they approached him privately on this matter. He ventured to make an earnest appeal to the right hon. Gentleman to prevail upon the Government to see the reasonableness of this request, and to grant it, for the sake of doing justice to the Welsh nation as well as for promoting the growth of an important branch of culture. He trusted the appeal would not be in vain. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-iii", "section": "class-iii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "be advanced as much as possible to important posts in the service. He could only assure the hon. Gentleman opposite and the noble Lord that he had not lost sight of this subject, and, although he was not in a position to fulfil all their hopes and expectations, he recognised the legitimate desire of the warders to improve their position, and he hoped he might be able to do something to effect it. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "for the island was to promote to a certain extent the growth of wheat there. The only purpose these annual grants served was that of subsidising the island in the growth of wheat. He now took the same objection to this Vote as he had already expressed on former occasions extending over many years past. He should leave his hon. Friend the Member for Warrington to deal with the question of tribute. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "the grossest breach of international faith, we could not dispose of it in any other way. I can only say that, if that really be the view that he takes on the subject, I cannot believe he would be supported by many persons on his own side, who have been, as we know perfectly well in recent times, very much disturbed by the treatment Turkey has meted out to her subjects in other parts of the world. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "this country, and that we should have used brutally our force in order to extract from it money which it could not pay for our personal advantage—that we should have treated it, in the words of the hon. Gentleman, as Spain used to treat her colonies. If that were the case, my hon. Friend has disclosed a state of things winch is a disgrace to this country, and, as I say, to successive Governments. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "eated it, in the words of the hon. Gentleman, as Spain used to treat her colonies. If that were the case, my hon. Friend has disclosed a state of things winch is a disgrace to this country, and, as I say, to successive Governments. [\"Hear, hear!\"] But, if what he has said is inaccurate, then I cannot help saying that a speech such as he has made is really calculated to do a great deal of mischief—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "xed. Where is the hardship there? If this island had continued under the rule of Turkey, the whole of this amount would have been extracted from the inhabitants as it had been before, and not only that, but it would have been extorted from them by the means which we know are too frequently adopted in countries such as Turkey, in order to obtain the taxation which they derive from subject nations. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": " Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1897, for the salaries and expenses in the Offices of the House of Commons. § SIR WILFRID LAWSON (Cumberland, Cockermouth) said he had inquired as to the licence for the sale of drink on the premises, but he had been unable to get any information. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "se of Commons was breaking the law by selling liquor to people without a licence. He would ask the Attorney General whether this was legal, and if he could say it was not illegal he would not divide 529 the House. But otherwise, he would certainly take a Division, for, in his opinion, law-makers should not he lawbreakers. It must not be supposed that he made this Motion in the cause of temperance—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "ithout a licence. He would ask the Attorney General whether this was legal, and if he could say it was not illegal he would not divide 529 the House. But otherwise, he would certainly take a Division, for, in his opinion, law-makers should not he lawbreakers. It must not be supposed that he made this Motion in the cause of temperance—[ laughter ]—because if he did so he should get little support. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": " But otherwise, he would certainly take a Division, for, in his opinion, law-makers should not he lawbreakers. It must not be supposed that he made this Motion in the cause of temperance—[ laughter ]—because if he did so he should get little support. [ Laughter .] He was quite aware that many Members on both sides would be unwilling to come there at all unless they were able to get those luxuries—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "Laughter", "preceding_text": "xisting law, and he simply moved the reduction of the Vote to give the Attorney General an opportunity of stating what was the law. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL said the hon. Baronet had not quite satisfactorily stated the facts of the case when he said that anybody who came to that House was supplied with drink. That might be the experience of the hon. Baronet, but it was not in accordance with his own. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "e desired to complain of. § SIR WILFRID LAWSON said he was not speaking of an abuse, but of breaking the law. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL said that, dealing with the abstract question, he did not say there were not some circumstances in which they might be called upon to interfere; for instance, if it were a fact that at those bars—with which the hon. Baronet seemed to have so large an acquaintance—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " responsible Minister of the Crown which was without precedent in the House. He told the House last Tuesday that Sir Jacobus de Wet distinctly denied having given those promises or made those pledges of protection. Every hon. Member present who heard the right hon. Gentleman must have understood him to mean that that denial was made on the strength of official information from Sir Jacobus de Wet. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "red the question on Monday he was obliged to confess he was relying for the alleged statement of Sir Jacobus de Wet upon a letter in the Saturday Review . He doubted whether there was ever before au instance of a Minister quoting a representative of the Crown on the strength of a letter in a magazine, a weekly newspaper, or even in a daily newspaper, the authenticity of which had not been proved. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "sburg, and by ordering the people to disarm. Such a step involved great responsibility on the part of the British Government. He had also appealed most solemnly to the Uitlanders to disarm in order to save the lives of Dr. Jameson and his comrades. That was a mistaken plea, but it was the High Commissioner's own fault that he had not found out the truth as to the terms of Dr. Jameson's surrender. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "Ironical Opposition cheers and laughter .", "preceding_text": "n extra five hundred men to Matabeleland, and inviting a Boer officer to see that there were no more. At another he was explaining away his own Dispatches and accepting the most humiliating ultimatums from the Boer Government. At the next the right hon. Gentleman was informing President Kruger and the world that the Uitlanders had only suffered what they deserved for having dared to take up arms. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "itish interests, he felt justified now in putting his sincere views before the House in regard to South Africa, and our immense interests there, interests which were of the very greatest importance, both for political and commercial reasons, to this country. § *SIR CHARLES DILKE said that it was not for him to undertake the defence of the right hon. Gentleman against his infuriated follower. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " him to undertake the defence of the right hon. Gentleman against his infuriated follower. [ Laughter .] But the hon. Member had done scant justice to the Colonial Secretary in attributing to him the unfortunate disruption of friendly relations between the Boers and the British. The hon. Member ascribed to the right hon. Gentleman all the consequences which had followed from the unfortunate raid. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " hitherto has been justified by strategical reasons. 539 But if we are to enter into a comparison between the Pacific line and the line suggested by my right hon. Friend, there is this to be said in favour of the Pacific line, that we should have large contributions towards its cost both from Canada and Australia, for that route is one which is very favourably viewed by both those great colonies. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "our of the Pacific line, that we should have large contributions towards its cost both from Canada and Australia, for that route is one which is very favourably viewed by both those great colonies. [\"Hear, hear!\"] Now I turn to my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield. I say at once that I do not complain in the slightest degree of the attack which it has amused him to make upon me this afternoon. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "re for some time, by the rather numerous questions which he has addressed to me during the Session, that he was anxious for an opportunity of expressing his dissent from the policy which I have had to announce on behalf of the Government. I am only sorry that the opportunity could not have been found for him earlier. But I hope that now that he has relieved his mind he will feel more comfortable. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "nd an exaggerated attack upon the Colonial Secretary, and partly because I do not think that even now the time has come to discuss fully the policy of this country in regard to South Africa. There are too many open questions still before us to make it possible for any one in my position to go at great length, or with any particularity, into the various difficulties that have presented themselves. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "Laughter, and general cheers .", "preceding_text": "nformation supplied me by Sir Jacobus de Wet and the High Commissioner. I gave the hon. Gentle- 540 man yesterday an answer definite and conclusive, so far, at any rate, as a statement made by the High Commissioner and Sir Jacobus de Wet can be conclusive. § SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT May I ask the right hon. Gentleman— § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN No, I must ask the hon. Gentleman to hear me out. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "HAMBERLAIN No, I must ask the hon. Gentleman to hear me out. [ Laughter, and general cheers .] After giving the hon. Gentleman that answer yesterday, he gets up again to-day and for twenty minutes he repeats the statement as if it were a proved statement—a statement that could not be denied by any one, although it is a statement absolutely denied by one of the parties to the supposed transaction. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ld not be denied by any one, although it is a statement absolutely denied by one of the parties to the supposed transaction. [ Cheers .] On what grounds does he think the answer I made on the authority of Sir Jacobus de Wet is insufficient? Because he says it is an unofficial statement. I do not distinguish between a statement made by an official to the Government, and one made to the newspapers. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "Laughter and cheers", "preceding_text": "s does he think the answer I made on the authority of Sir Jacobus de Wet is insufficient? Because he says it is an unofficial statement. I do not distinguish between a statement made by an official to the Government, and one made to the newspapers. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I do not understand that a man lies when he writes to the newspapers, and that he tells the truth when he makes an official ststement. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "Cheers and laughter .", "preceding_text": "use he says it is an unofficial statement. I do not distinguish between a statement made by an official to the Government, and one made to the newspapers. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I do not understand that a man lies when he writes to the newspapers, and that he tells the truth when he makes an official ststement. [ Laughter and cheers ] If he is capable of lying in one case he is capable of lying in both. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " doubt they are under the impression that they received something more than the mere statement of Sir Jacobus de Wet as to what would probably happen. But I can only say that in my position it is impossible for me, in view of the facts I have brought before the House, to doubt the word of Sir Jacobus de Wet when he said, \"I did not pledge the Government; I only expressed my own personal opinion.\" "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "ought before the House, to doubt the word of Sir Jacobus de Wet when he said, \"I did not pledge the Government; I only expressed my own personal opinion.\" [ Cheers .] § *SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT Will you ask him? § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN The hon. Gentleman says, \"Will you ask him?\" I should think I would insult him if I asked him whether the letter he wrote to the Saturday Review was untrue. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " my own personal opinion.\" [ Cheers .] § *SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT Will you ask him? § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN The hon. Gentleman says, \"Will you ask him?\" I should think I would insult him if I asked him whether the letter he wrote to the Saturday Review was untrue. [ Cheers .] That is the question the hon. Gentleman asks me to put to Sir Jacobus de Wet, whose praises he has been I sounding. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "ironical cheers", "preceding_text": " Terms of Reference may be carried out, by provisionally retaining King's College in the list for a grant of £1,700, contingent, however, upon its removing the tests from all its teachers (other than theological) within the present year. This was a second, and still more serious warning to the authorities at King's College to bring the institution into harmony with the liberal spirit of the times—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "Ministerial cheers", "preceding_text": "n endowment fund. But their supporters did not appear to be willing to pay so high a price for the retention of ecclesiastical tests; for after repeated appeals during many months, he believed that only about £25,000 was promised. Then came an event which had proved a most fortunate one, not for King's College only, but some other vested interests also. The present Government came 552 into office—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " and maintain a liberal educational policy, he moved that the present Vote be reduced by the £1,700 proposed to be voted to King's College. § *SIR ALBERT ROLLIT (Islington, S.) said that in August last he drew the attention of the House to the rescission of the grant to King's College, and elicited from the Secretary of the Treasury the promise of its renewal, which had since been fulfilled. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "rection of the Treasury, as a condition of the grant. Yet King's College had lost through the action of the late Government in two years £3,000, which went towards its educational work in science and art alone, for this was the most costly of all instruction, owing to the expense of apparatus, etc. Now, he defended the grant on the ground of the service which King's College rendered to the State. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "e—because it was a 553 Church of England institution! A French Statesman once said, \"Perish the colonies rather than principle!\" In this case to refuse this Vote would be to proclaim a principle and at the same time to do that which was unjust to the institution and disadvantageous to the State. This was no principle, but a want of principle, against which, in the name of principle, he protested. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "iend had also appealed to the policy of Parliament and to precedents. But was he right? Parliamentary grants were made to elementary schools, and yet they were distinctly, in many cases, denominational institutions, and both sides of the House now conceded that more must be given to them; and the same remark applied to the grants to the training colleges and to denominational colleges in Ireland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "sides of the House now conceded that more must be given to them; and the same remark applied to the grants to the training colleges and to denominational colleges in Ireland. [\"Hear, hear!\"] What was done at King's College, moreover, was done under the authority, and according to the requirements, of its Act of Parliament, and, therefore this expressed the policy of Parliament qua King's College. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ause might be ultra vires the King's College Act of Parliament. For he was ready to admit, as a friend of King's College and a former member of the Council, that he thought the theological tests imposed were unwise and wrong, and he and several others had resigned from the Council rather than, in the interest of the College and education, be parties to the continuance of them and to other things. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " he thought the theological tests imposed were unwise and wrong, and he and several others had resigned from the Council rather than, in the interest of the College and education, be parties to the continuance of them and to other things. [\"Hear, hear!\"] The staff, too, had been much opposed to them. He thought that what was good enough for Oxford and Cambridge was good enough for King's College. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\" Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " them and to other things. [\"Hear, hear!\"] The staff, too, had been much opposed to them. He thought that what was good enough for Oxford and Cambridge was good enough for King's College. [\"Hear, hear!\"] To that extent he agreed with his hon. Friend opposite. More than that, he knew the tests were illusory, and they tended to exclude the conscientious and admit the unconscientious or indifferent. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " name one Professor who was tried for heterodoxy as a Professor, but he became a teacher in the College, the tests notwithstanding. But in his opinion his hon. Friend exaggerated somewhat the practical 554 effect of these tests. He knew of no case of real exclusion by reason of them, though he had been told they had occurred, and, if it were so, it was, of course, of serious moment educationally. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " he had been told they had occurred, and, if it were so, it was, of course, of serious moment educationally. [\"Hear, hear!\"] And he was of opinion that when King's College, as it did, forewent the tests in the case of its teachers of foreign and Oriental languages, it surrendered the whole case for the tests so far as the secular, as distinguished from the theological, departments were concerned. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "\"] And he was of opinion that when King's College, as it did, forewent the tests in the case of its teachers of foreign and Oriental languages, it surrendered the whole case for the tests so far as the secular, as distinguished from the theological, departments were concerned. [\"Hear, hear!\"] But while making these concessions, he still defended the grant on educational grounds and for the State. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "Hear, hear! \"", "preceding_text": "r!\"] But while making these concessions, he still defended the grant on educational grounds and for the State. [\"Hear, hear!\"] In this country we needed much greater provision for the higher scientific and secondary education. The two years' arrears of £3,000 ought, in fact, to be paid, and the grants to the University Colleges ought to be at least doubled, as had been recommended by a Committee, "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/class-v-1", "section": "class-v-1", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "and, by joint arrangements between King's, University, and other Colleges, much economy of both pecuniary and educational effort might be effected, and with more liberal aid, we might emulate the national and international success of Gresham College, during the time when our commerce was being built up, which was crowded out with students and led to the foundation of the Collège de France. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/sitting-of-tue-house-wednesday", "section": "sitting-of-tue-house-wednesday", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "Order on the Paper. On occasions when that custom had been departed from, it was stated that it would be sufficient if the Third Reading of the Measure were set down as the first Order. Before sitting down, he wished just to refer to the extent to which the House had been overworked during the past few weeks. The hours during which the House had been kept at work were, he believed, unprecedented. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "section": "application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said the clause at present provided that these expenses should be defrayed out of the grand jury cess. The grand jury had nothing whatever to do with the poor rate, and they surely could not impose such an expenditure upon them. The boards of guardians had to do with the poor rate. MR. T. M. HEALY hoped the right hon. Gentleman would not make this Bill contentious. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "section": "application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear.\"", "preceding_text": "be defrayed out of the grand jury cess. The grand jury had nothing whatever to do with the poor rate, and they surely could not impose such an expenditure upon them. The boards of guardians had to do with the poor rate. MR. T. M. HEALY hoped the right hon. Gentleman would not make this Bill contentious. [ Laughter .] He submitted that it was only fair that the landlord should pay half the amount. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "section": "application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "d, 564 § *MR. W. E. M. TOMLINSON (Preston) , seated and with his hat on, said that if these words were omitted the clause would not work. Mr. T. M. HEALY Order, order! That is not a point of order. *THE CHAIRMAN (MR. WODEHOUSE) The Committee have the right to decide the question submitted to them. THE SOLICITOR GENERAL On the point of order, Sir— An hon. MEMBER Order, order! Put your hat on. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "section": "application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "cue_text": "Cries of \"Order!\"", "preceding_text": "n hon. MEMBER Order, order! Put your hat on. [ Laughter .] § THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER , amid general laughter, passed the hon. and learned Member a hat. THE SOLICITOR GENERAL , seated and with a hat on, said that as be understood the Amendment it was to substitute for the words \"grand jury cess\" the words \"poor rate.\" If that was so the Committee would be in a very difficult position. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "section": "application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": " order. *THE CHAIRMAN (Mr. WODEHOUSE) said that as he understood the Amendment it would be open to the Committee to strike out the words \"poor rate\" and to insert the words \"grand jury cess\" by a subsequent Amendment. § Question put, \"That those words be there added.\" § The Committee divided:—Ayes, 44; Noes, 149.—(Division List, No. 409.) MR. T. M. HEALY moved that Progress be reported. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "section": "application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "cue_text": "a laugh", "preceding_text": "y a subsequent Amendment. § Question put, \"That those words be there added.\" § The Committee divided:—Ayes, 44; Noes, 149.—(Division List, No. 409.) MR. T. M. HEALY moved that Progress be reported. [Cheers.] The conduct of the Government had not been fair. They intervened in a Bill which was not a Government Bill. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, who had robbed Ireland of three millions—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "section": "application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "were— And any expenses incurred in carrying this Act into effect in Ireland shall be defrayed out of the grand jury cess. The proposal was to strike out the words \"the grand jury cess.\" [\"No!\"] Let them know how the question stood. How was the question put? *THE CHAIRMAN (Mr. WODEHOUSE) That— any expenses incurred in carrying this Act into effect in Ireland shall be defrayed out of the poor rate. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "section": "application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "cue_text": "\" Hear, hear.\"", "preceding_text": "as the question put? *THE CHAIRMAN (Mr. WODEHOUSE) That— any expenses incurred in carrying this Act into effect in Ireland shall be defrayed out of the poor rate. [\"Hear, hear!\"] § SIR W. HARCOURT Quite so; they had negatived the words, and they could not put in poor rate or grand jury cess. There was no provision for expenses, and, therefore, it was not worth while to proceed with the Bill. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "section": "application-to-scotland-and-ireland", "cue_text": "Cries of \"No!\"", "preceding_text": "ear, hear.\"] It was quite plain that, having got into this impasse , the Government ought to accept the motion to report progress. § THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said that the Leader of the House, who was absent for the moment, had said that these Bills were only to be proceeded with if they were non-contentious. As a point of contention had arisen it would be better to accept the motion. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "long time to come would have the same amount of importance for Ireland as this. The Boers were absolutely opposed to any concession to the Catholics. They refused to allow a Catholic to act even as a scavenger in Pretoria, and while he admired the gallant stand of the Boers— § *MR. SPEAKER Order, order! The only question before the House is whether this Committee shall consist of 17 members. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Laugher .", "preceding_text": "ether this Committee shall consist of 17 members. [ Laughter .] MR. T. M. HEALY Yes, Sir; and with all submission to your ruling I was going to suggest a reason why the Irish Members as Catholics were entitled to more than one member on this Committee. § *MR. SPEAKER The hon. Gentleman is certainly entitled to go into that question, but not into the opinions or action of the Boer Government. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "was slightly wrong in his arithmetic. The Irish Party in their present position were not entitled to two members on a Committee of 15. Time was when they were 85 men of one Party, and when their right to two men out of 15 was recognised. But now the Irish party for whom he was entitled to speak consisted of 71 members— MR. T. M. HEALY May I say that I spoke for Irish Nationalists of all sections? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "n of one Party, and when their right to two men out of 15 was recognised. But now the Irish party for whom he was entitled to speak consisted of 71 members— MR. T. M. HEALY May I say that I spoke for Irish Nationalists of all sections? [ Laughter .] § MR. DILLON I wish the hon. Member for Louth could speak for Irish Nationalists of all sections. § MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN (Kilkenny) Can you? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "I say that I spoke for Irish Nationalists of all sections? [ Laughter .] § MR. DILLON I wish the hon. Member for Louth could speak for Irish Nationalists of all sections. § MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN (Kilkenny) Can you? [ Laughter .] § MR. DILLON I \"was just going to say that I cannot. But can the hon. Member for North Louth? 568 § MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN I agree with every word he said. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "er .] § MR. DILLON I \"was just going to say that I cannot. But can the hon. Member for North Louth? 568 § MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN I agree with every word he said. [ Laughter .] § MR. DILLON said that, unfortunately he could only speak for 71 Irish Members, and as such, on a Committee of 15 members, he was only entitled to ask for one member and the thirteen-twenty-second part of a man. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Mr. T. M. HEALY: \"Oh, oh!\"", "preceding_text": "ttee to the Liberal party. He disputed the assertion of the hon. Member for North Louth that this Committee was for the Irish people the most important Committee that had ever been appointed. He thought the Belfast Committee was of far greater importance to Ireland. What had the treatment of the Catholics in the Transvaal to do with the Jameson raid or the administration of the Chartered Company? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Ministerial cheers and laughter .", "preceding_text": "hat had the treatment of the Catholics in the Transvaal to do with the Jameson raid or the administration of the Chartered Company? [Mr. T. M. HEALY: \"Oh, oh!\"] The hon. Member for North Louth based his argument on the supposition that the Irish Members numbered 83. MR. T. M. HEALY Ireland is one and indivisible. § MR. DILLON That may be the experience of the hon. Member, but it is not mine. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Ministerial laughter .", "preceding_text": "f the hon. Member, but it is not mine. [ Ministerial cheers and laughter .] I hope his words may come true before long. Continuing, the hon. Member said the hon. Member for North Louth wanted the hon. Member for East Donegal added to the Committee, while the Parnellite Members proposed to add the hon. Member for Waterford. Here was an instance of the indivisibility and oneness of the Irish Party. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "t would be too many and that 11 would be sufficient. Upon the representation of the Leader of the Opposition that it would be more convenient and give a better representation if the Committee were enlarged to 15, he agreed that the Committee should 570 be 15, having already indicated his willingness to do so in moving it. He thought that was as far as the Government ought to be called upon to go. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "tee were enlarged to 15, he agreed that the Committee should 570 be 15, having already indicated his willingness to do so in moving it. He thought that was as far as the Government ought to be called upon to go. [\"Hear, hear!\"] He considered it was practically an arrangement between the two sides of the House, and on that ground it was impossible for him to consent to any increase in that number. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "oportion of a Committee of 15 was 44 2–3rds to one. Taking the number of the Government and their supporters at 408, that would give them 9 6–44ths. It would give to the Opposition as a whole 5 38–44ths. So that the Opposition in taking six had 6–44ths more than they were entitled to, and the Government in taking nine had 6–44ths less than they were entitled to. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "ths. So that the Opposition in taking six had 6–44ths more than they were entitled to, and the Government in taking nine had 6–44ths less than they were entitled to. [ Laughter .] He did not think it was for him to examine into the proportions into which the six Members due to the Opposition should be divided. That was a domestic matter which, he thought, should be discussed at home—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "\" Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " examine into the proportions into which the six Members due to the Opposition should be divided. That was a domestic matter which, he thought, should be discussed at home—[ laughter ]—and he really did not venture to offer any opinion upon it. He thought he had done all he was called upon to do. He had shown in a Committee of 15 that nine for the Government was less than their proper proportion. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "s likely to give satisfaction to the House. He came to the agreement with the Leader of the House, whom he was surprised not to see present, and, therefore, he supported the list as put down. § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN I beg the right hon Gentleman's pardon. I do 571 not at all deny that the Leader of the Government was present when we came to that agreement, but he came to that agreement with me. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "eader of the House, whom he was surprised not to see present, and, therefore, he supported the list as put down. § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN I beg the right hon Gentleman's pardon. I do 571 not at all deny that the Leader of the Government was present when we came to that agreement, but he came to that agreement with me. [ Cheers .] § SIR W. HARCOURT If I may say so, this is a domestic matter. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " the list as put down. § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN I beg the right hon Gentleman's pardon. I do 571 not at all deny that the Leader of the Government was present when we came to that agreement, but he came to that agreement with me. [ Cheers .] § SIR W. HARCOURT If I may say so, this is a domestic matter. [ Laughter .] § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN No, that is not the case. It is a matter of fact. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "hat the Leader of the Government was present when we came to that agreement, but he came to that agreement with me. [ Cheers .] § SIR W. HARCOURT If I may say so, this is a domestic matter. [ Laughter .] § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN No, that is not the case. It is a matter of fact. [ Cheers .] The right hon. Gentleman is trying to separate me from my right hon. Friend. We are absolutely agreed. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "J. CHAMBERLAIN No, that is not the case. It is a matter of fact. [ Cheers .] The right hon. Gentleman is trying to separate me from my right hon. Friend. We are absolutely agreed. [ Cheers .] The right hon. Gentleman has no right to comment upon the absence of my right hon. Friend who is absent, as he knows, because of important business, at the present moment—when I am present to answer for him. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "sion should be given, and that decision was afterwards given to him by the Leader of the House. Under these circumstances he felt bound—and he should fulfil that obligation—to maintain the list of the Committee exactly as it was settled both in regard to its numbers and constitution. These arrangements could only be made in that way, and could only be carried out by both Parties adhering to them. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "Mr. J. Redmond, on the ground that the Irish Party as a whole had not got proper representation. MR. T. M. HEALY remarked that the proposition had been laid down by the hon. Member for East Mayo that he had no concern with the representation of Ireland as a whole in that House, and that his duty was concerned with his own special flock. If so, he would find that flock growing smaller and smaller. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "ot the number of the Committee, but whether the name of Mr. John Redmond or that of Mr. Sydney Buxton should stand. 573 MR. T. M. HEALY said he would endeavour to strictly obey Mr. Speaker's ruling. He supported the name of Mr. John Redmond on the ground that it was the business of any Irish Member to take into consideration their position as Nationalists, and not their position as sectionalists. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "and that, in accordance with the usual practice in such cases, they received from them their nomination and they did not go behind them under these circumstances. They had received from them in the usual way these names. They proposed to support these names, and if they were to do otherwise they would destroy altogether the foundation on which these Committees had been for a long while appointed. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "Cheers and laughter .", "preceding_text": "Committee.\"—( Sir William Walrond .) MR. T. M. HEALY moved that the name of Mr. Arthur O'Connor be substituted. § *SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT appealed to the hon. Member to withdraw his Motion. It was important that this should be an impartial Committee. The Committee as a whole would, he thought, be rather disposed to carry out the views of the Colonial Office, which he did not entirely share. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/aug/11", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/aug/11/british-south-african-committee", "section": "british-south-african-committee", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "would, he thought, be rather disposed to carry out the views of the Colonial Office, which he did not entirely share. [ Cheers and laughter .] Of the few independent members of the Committee whom they could rely on, he thought that the hon. Member for Ripon was one, and therefore he appealed to the hon. Member to withdraw his Motion and oppose some other more objectionable member of the Committee—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/aug/11", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/aug/11/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "l land had borne an unjust share of the burdens which must be borne for local purposes by the community, and he was entitled to say that nothing in the way of any alternative proposal had been so much as indicated in a form in which it was possible to criticise or discuss it. He believed the Bill would give great satisfaction in Scotland and prepare the way for greater reforms in the near future. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/ballot-for-bills-and-notices-of-motion", "section": "ballot-for-bills-and-notices-of-motion", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " if it should commend itself to the House at large it would probably be advisable that he should propose that his Resolution should be made a Standing Order. § MR. T. M. HEALY (Louth, N.) said that he would not oppose a Motion that was put down for the general convenience of private Members, but it must be clear to everyone that at present legislation by private Members was an impossibility. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/ballot-for-bills-and-notices-of-motion", "section": "ballot-for-bills-and-notices-of-motion", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "nd Reading shall have precedence all through the Session on Wednesdays over Bills at less advanced stages. He did not suppose that the House would assent to this proposal at once, but the whole Wednesday's proceedings at present were a mere performance, and nothing came out of them. He would ask the right hon. Gentleman not to move that the Resolution should be made a Standing Order of the House. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/ballot-for-bills-and-notices-of-motion", "section": "ballot-for-bills-and-notices-of-motion", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "dnesdays immediately after Whitsuntide, because, unless such undertaking were to be given, it would be utterly useless for private Members to introduce Bills at all. Bills which had been read a second time, sometimes unanimously and sometimes by large majorities, and which were even adopted by the Government, were practically lost by the Government taking Wednesdays immediately after Whitsuntide. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/ballot-for-bills-and-notices-of-motion", "section": "ballot-for-bills-and-notices-of-motion", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": " on Wednesdays. MR. JAMES LOWTHER (Kent, Thanet) pointed out that the Closure at half-past Five o'clock on Wednesdays had not been applied invariably in the past. Mr. Speaker Peel gave it as his opinion that Measures of great magnitude should not be disposed of in a single sitting. He mentioned that lest a Measure should be introduced for the abolition of what remained of the British Constitution "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Irish cheers.", "preceding_text": "r reading the present Speech from the Throne would be the beggarly character of the reference to Ireland, and he should be very much surprised if the impression made by this Speech on the people of Ireland would not be to deepen and fix more firmly in their minds the conviction, which had been the steady growth of many years, that nothing was to be got from that House except by violent agitation. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "d accurate statement was published showing the original allotment of shares by this Company, and tracing those shares from hand to hand. There existed a deep and widespread conviction that the Press of this country, and certain prominent and influential men in 171 this city, and that even to some extent Members of that House and another House, had not been altogether free from certain influences. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ols of England were about to receive some further assistance; but he regretted that the statement was extremely enigmatic. He felt bound to represent to the Vice-President of the Council the urgent and extreme necessity of the Catholic schools in England, and to point out that the case of the Catholics stood on a totally different basis from that of the voluntary schools of the Church of England. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers.", "preceding_text": " their back enormous endowments and wealth; and they also differed from the Catholic schools in that grievances were alleged against the rural schools of the Church of England. He could tell the Nonconformists of England that they were entirely mistaken if they supposed that the Irish Catholic Members intended to support any measure which would inflict any kind of grievance on the Nonconformists. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Ministerial laughter", "preceding_text": "ever. They increased not by arithmetical but by geometrical progression. It was said that \"the exigencies of the situation\" demanded a further increase. Those exigencies had been created by the policy of the present Government, and the Irish Members would resist by every means in their power this enormous increase of expenditure, unless a due proportion of the surplus were handed over to Ireland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" from Mr. GERALD BALFOUR.", "preceding_text": "sity for immediately dealing with the Irish land question; and his answer was:— They cannot expect that the provisions of any Land Bill I may introduce tit this period of the Session would not be of a non-contentious nature; and therefore, I think, we may at once give up any intention of introducing or attempting to pass at the present time any Land Bill which would attempt to solve the question. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers.", "preceding_text": "uld be practically a non-contentious measure. The Speech declared that the condition of agriculture was disastrous beyond any recent experience. But last August the Chief Secretary said that there was on special depression in agriculture in Ireland, and that within the last year or two a heavy fall in prices could not be alleged. Then how did agriculture happen to be in such a bad way in England? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "eavy fall in prices could not be alleged. Then how did agriculture happen to be in such a bad way in England? [ Nationalist cheers. ] Because the Government was leaning upon the support of the country classes in tins country, they told the truth about agriculture here; but because they leaned upon the support of the landlords in Ireland, they dared not tell the truth about agriculture in Ireland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " by an Amendment to the Address, to declare his policy on Home Rule, and in reply, he said: \"Our attitude upon the question is, and will continue to be, one of unchanging and inflexible opposition.\" As long as a Government remained in power whose attitude towards Home Rule was one of unchanging and inflexible opposition, so long would Ireland remain discontented, and he might almost say, disloyal "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers.", "preceding_text": "hich they had indulged, and were beginning to face the realities of the case. In America, which, after all, he believed to be the stronghold of militant Nationalism, there was an ominous silence; the Colonies were apathetic, and the civilized world was hardly worth appealing to. That policy in regard to appealing to the civilised world would yet cost England many millions before she had done. 177 "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers.", "preceding_text": "old of militant Nationalism, there was an ominous silence; the Colonies were apathetic, and the civilized world was hardly worth appealing to. That policy in regard to appealing to the civilised world would yet cost England many millions before she had done. 177 [ Nationalist cheers. ] There was an ominous silence in America, but England had heard from America since, and she was no longer silent. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers.", "preceding_text": "y had sounded its depths, that the Irish Nationalists, whose task, under the leadership of Mr. Parnell and others, had been to conciliate to the best of their ability the confidence and the faith of the Irish people in America to the efficacy of Parliamentary and constitutional means in the effort to secure the liberty of the Irish people at home, had lost that hold on their faith and confidence? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Hear, hear.", "preceding_text": "o the best of their ability the confidence and the faith of the Irish people in America to the efficacy of Parliamentary and constitutional means in the effort to secure the liberty of the Irish people at home, had lost that hold on their faith and confidence? [ Nationalist cheers. ] To any English Minister who really understood the Irish problem that fact would be a matter for regret and sorrow. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear !\"", "preceding_text": "nt tone of the Speech from the Throne compared with that of the articles in The Times and the speeches of Ministers about a month or so ago. Two or three months since the ordinary talk in London was that America would back down and eat humble pie; that the British fleets could burn and blow up the cities of America in a very few weeks. Happily for England and for mankind that language had ceased. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers.", "preceding_text": ", as was most shamefully and insultingly alleged by men who ought to 178 have known better, an electioneering dodge on behalf of President Cleveland, and that the President spoke with the voice of a united people, who were prepared to face the arbitrament of war if England had refused arbitration. But England was now going to accept arbitration—that was, after America had been forced to threaten. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers", "preceding_text": " threaten. [ Nationalist cheers. ] It would have been much more decent if England had accepted arbitration six months ago before Mr. Olney's Dispatch was written. He hoped, however, that this event would be a lesson to England for the future. Perhaps it was too much for an Irishman to hope that it would be a lesson to England to adopt towards weak peoples, and particularly towards unarmed nations "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers.", "preceding_text": "Olney's Dispatch was written. He hoped, however, that this event would be a lesson to England for the future. Perhaps it was too much for an Irishman to hope that it would be a lesson to England to adopt towards weak peoples, and particularly towards unarmed nations [ Nationalist cheers ], somewhat of the same tone and civility which she had adopted towards America after America showed her teeth. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers.", "preceding_text": "y that, if the Government should be so misguided as to refuse to grant unlimited, unrestrained, and unrestricted arbitration to America, which the voice of civilised mankind approved, they would, as far as possible on the floor of that House, and within the lines of the Constitution, resist to the uttermost any attempt to declare war against the greatest and freest nation the world had ever seen. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers.", "preceding_text": "on the floor of that House, and within the lines of the Constitution, resist to the uttermost any attempt to declare war against the greatest and freest nation the world had ever seen. [ Nationalist cheers. ] They would let the world know that the Irish people could have no sympathy with any attempt to bully a nation which had always been a faithful, compassionate, and generous friend to Ireland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers.", "preceding_text": "to the policy of the present Government in regard to Home Rule, if it were their object to insult Ireland, and to drive her people again into violence and secret associations, and to stir up all the most dangerous elements in Irish life, he did not think a speech more calculated to achieve those objects could have been made than that delivered to the Nonconformist Unionists by the Prime Minister. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers.", "preceding_text": "geous, and unreasonable speech was never delivered by a responsible man. The Prime Minister had learned nothing by experience, and, while the Chief Secretary was in Ireland addressing honeyed words to the Irish people, and assuring them that his solicitude for the welfare of Ireland was unbounded, Lord Salisbury went to a Nonconformist banquet, and insulted the Irish people in every possible way. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers.", "preceding_text": " Home Rule would not remove her evils,\" the Premier had forgotten the lesson of the late Election. But the part of the noble Lord's speech which would sink deepest into the minds of the Irish people was contained in those words—\"But what is move than all to her is that she has learnt that Home Rule is not to be obtained.\" A more brutal utterance never came from the lips of a responsible Minister. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers.", "preceding_text": "s of Home Rule. If President Kruger had replied to this Dispatch in regard to the Uitlanders in the same terms that Lord Salisbury spoke of the Irish people and Home Rule, could the Minister for the Colonies have complained? Yet President Kruger would have been ten thousand times more justified in addressing such language to the Uitlanders than Lord Salisbury in addressing it to the Irish people. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "n hugged by successive Ministers for Ireland—and it had always proved, in the long run, even to them, to be a delusion—that the Irish question consisted only of the land question. The question that interested Ireland and Irishmen all over the world more than every other question was the conviction that Irishmen ought to manage their own affairs, and could manage them better than any other people. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "es of Friday week as the key-note of its article. That sentence was this: \"I care not how much England is isolated abroad so long as she is united at home.\" Member of Parliament as he was, he ventured to say that more absurd and more mischievous language never proceeded from the mouth of a Minister. But the point he wished to emphasise was, that from that union at home Ireland was to be excluded. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "is speech had, by a manœ;uvre which he had executed, come in between him and his Amendment, and moved one which stood considerably below on the Paper. He was not sorry that the opportunity had been afforded of showing that, however they might differ in Ireland as to their policy of advancing the cause of Home Rule, at any rate, on the principle of Home Rule they were all absolutely united. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and Parnellite cries of \"Didn't you?\"", "preceding_text": "estion could not be viewed by the supporters of the movement without a feeling akin to consternation. He would not comment on that occasion on the sneers which the hon. Member for East Mayo had seemed to direct against his political opponents in Ireland. 183 § MR. DILLON said, that nothing was further from his intention. He had said nothing that laid him open to the charge of the hon. Member "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "of Lords, the demand which he and his friends made that a Dissolution of Parliament should take place was rejected and denounced, and from that day no real earnest effort was made to keep the Home Rule question to the front. That was one of the reasons why the Party of the hon. Member for East Mayo had, according to his own admission, lost so large a measure of the confidence of the Irish people. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "made to keep the Home Rule question to the front. That was one of the reasons why the Party of the hon. Member for East Mayo had, according to his own admission, lost so large a measure of the confidence of the Irish people. [\"Hear, hear!\"] The attitude of the present Government with respect to Home Rule was perfectly clear, whatever their attitude might have been in Lord Carnarvon's time. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Some cries of \"Oh!\"", "preceding_text": "th respect to Home Rule was perfectly clear, whatever their attitude might have been in Lord Carnarvon's time. [\"Hear, hear!\"] They said that now, at any rate, they would not consider Home Rule. The present Debate, therefore, was not likely to elicit any valuable declarations from the existing Government, but it might have the effect of eliciting some declarations from the Liberal Leaders. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " in Lord Carnarvon's time. [\"Hear, hear!\"] They said that now, at any rate, they would not consider Home Rule. The present Debate, therefore, was not likely to elicit any valuable declarations from the existing Government, but it might have the effect of eliciting some declarations from the Liberal Leaders. [ Some cries of \"Oh!\"] Apparently the Liberal Leaders did not like the idea. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter.", "preceding_text": "rred to gentlemen who sneered at the union of hearts. [Mr. DILLON: \"Not at all.\"] Well, he did not deny that he had sneered at it, but only when the union of hearts became a sham and a fraud, and he now wished to ask the Liberal Leaders what they understood by the expression. Were the Nationalist Members to be in alliance with the Liberal Party in this Parliament, and, if so, what were the terms? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "land had been a mistake and a failure, and when they would revert to the only policy from which Irishmen had ever obtained any advantage—namely, the policy of disregarding all English Parties, of supreme selfishness in forwarding Irish interests, and of taking advantage of every Party difficulty and complication that might supply opportunities for pressing Ireland's demands to a successful issue. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "Amendment to the Address was now before the House, from following the hon. Member for Mayo into all the details of his speech. But still, in passing, he must congratulate the hon. Gentleman on a remarkable difference between his speech this day and every other speech he had delivered in the House on the Irish question. The hon. Member had not, on this occasion, said there was a famine in Ireland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist laughter", "preceding_text": "manded a reduction of 50 per cent. in their rents. If that statement were true, which he doubted, it was a condition of things that would probably remain so long as there were tenants in Ireland. But the hon. Member had not backed his statement by any evidence to show that the Irish tenants were objecting to pay the present rents, which from his (Colonel Saunderson's) point of view, were moderate "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ement by any evidence to show that the Irish tenants were objecting to pay the present rents, which from his (Colonel Saunderson's) point of view, were moderate [ Nationalist laughter ]; and which, in any case, the tenants were paying without grumbling, as well they might, for the conditions under which they lived were far superior to the position of the tenants of any other country in the world. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter and Ministerial cheers.", "preceding_text": " of the speech of the hon. Member for Mayo was that three-quarters of that speech had not a word about Home Rule, but was devoted to other topics, which, he supposed, the hon. Member had placed in the forefront because he thought them as important, or even more important, than Home Rule. In fact, the hon. Member for Mayo had done what his Liberal friends had done. He put Home Rule on a back seat. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist Cries of \"No\"", "preceding_text": " placed in the forefront because he thought them as important, or even more important, than Home Rule. In fact, the hon. Member for Mayo had done what his Liberal friends had done. He put Home Rule on a back seat. [ Laughter and Ministerial cheers. ] He had ventured to assert over and over again in the House, though his observations were generally received with derision by hon. Gentlemen opposite—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "bers were prodigious; indeed, if the figures given were to be accepted, the whole world would soon be populated by Irish people. The argument was that Great Britain was tottering to her fall, and that, unless she changed her parliamentary system, this tremendous race would be arrayed in determined hostility against her. That was a sort of argument which had never answered with the British people. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Ironical cries of \"No, no!\"", "preceding_text": "the whole world would soon be populated by Irish people. The argument was that Great Britain was tottering to her fall, and that, unless she changed her parliamentary system, this tremendous race would be arrayed in determined hostility against her. That was a sort of argument which had never answered with the British people. [\"Hear, hear!\"] He believed the British people had their faults. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "doubtedly passing through dangerous complications, and the effect of threats addressed to her by a country which we believed to be friendly had been, to elicit from every land over which the British flag waved an echo which had shown the world that where-ever that flag floated there were sympathetic hearts which beat in unison with our own, and hands ready to strike for the welfare of the Empire. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Oh, oh!\"", "preceding_text": "how the situation in the Transvaal was dragged into this Debate. He did not think anyone in the House would for a moment defend the events which had recently occurred in the Transvaal. The incursion into its territory by Dr. Jameson was an unjustifiable act and could not be defended; but still the British public would believe that he and his followers were actuated by brave and chivalrous motives "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and some laughter.", "preceding_text": "ts which had recently occurred in the Transvaal. The incursion into its territory by Dr. Jameson was an unjustifiable act and could not be defended; but still the British public would believe that he and his followers were actuated by brave and chivalrous motives [\"Oh, oh!\"], and that in a time of trial, difficulty and danger they showed qualities worthy of the race from which they sprung. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" A VOICE: ''Not now.\"", "preceding_text": "ives [\"Oh, oh!\"], and that in a time of trial, difficulty and danger they showed qualities worthy of the race from which they sprung. [\"Hear, hear!\" and some laughter. ] It was only in America that our rejection of Home Rule could produce difficulties in our foreign policy. He was not likely, nor was any Member of the House likely, to say anything intentionally offensive to America. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "e reason why nothing offensive would be said 191 was that nothing ungenerous was felt. They might travel in England from the north to the south without finding anyone who was not in favour of anything but a friendly understanding with America. But he concluded from the sarcastic cheers of hon. Members opposite that our friendship with America was dictated by mean, sordid motives. That was not so. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist cries of \"No.\"", "preceding_text": "h to the south without finding anyone who was not in favour of anything but a friendly understanding with America. But he concluded from the sarcastic cheers of hon. Members opposite that our friendship with America was dictated by mean, sordid motives. That was not so. [ Cheers. ] The majority of the inhabitants of the United States were descended from the same race that inhabited these islands. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " President Kruger in dealing with the Uitlanders, and tended to embitter the anti-English feeling which existed in the United States. § COLONEL SAUNDERSON said, he did not see how our refusal of Home Rule to Ireland affected our relations with America. As to embittering the relations between this country and Ireland—whether in Ireland or on the other side of the Atlantic—that was impossible. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist cries of \"No.\"", "preceding_text": " affected our relations with America. As to embittering the relations between this country and Ireland—whether in Ireland or on the other side of the Atlantic—that was impossible. [ Laughter. ] He did not see how the concentrated essence of verjuice could exceed the hatred and detestation hon. Members opposite had displayed when they spoke openly to their friends in Ireland of the British people. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "ch disappointed that they did not get Home Rule for Ireland, if there had been any basis of truth whatever in the \"union of hearts\" it might have been thought that they would have shown some sympathy with this country, because let them remember that in these complications the word of this country did not mean this Party or that, but every Briton, whether Conservative, Liberal Unionist or Radical. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "th whatever in the \"union of hearts\" it might have been thought that they would have shown some sympathy with this country, because let them remember that in these complications the word of this country did not mean this Party or that, but every Briton, whether Conservative, Liberal Unionist or Radical. [ Cheers. ] When the country was in danger it was a proud thing to know that they were united. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers, and a voice —\"Splendid isolation—Lord Salisbury.\" Great Britain had one friend on whom she relied—namely, herself. [ Cheers and a voice —\"Ulster.\"", "preceding_text": "henever he could. But they were the only Nationalist Party in Ireland that had consistently and systematically placed Home Rule before every other question. That was an attitude everybody could understand. But the hon. Member said:— Great Britain, which had rejected Home Rule for Ireland and spurned the hand of friendship Ireland held out, was to-day without one friend throughout the whole world. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "ghout the whole world. [ Nationalist cheers, and a voice —\"Splendid isolation—Lord Salisbury.\" Great Britain had one friend on whom she relied—namely, herself. [ Cheers and a voice —\"Ulster.\"] Ulster was part of herself. If they read the history of the nations of the world they would find that, after all, the only friend any nation could rely upon in the hour of difficulty and danger was herself. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Irish Cheers.", "preceding_text": "en for the Boers. He admired the Boers as he always admired a brave people who fought their own corner. Then the hon. Member for Waterford went on to say:— She has the German Empire arrayed against her; in the East she is afraid to stir hand or foot to redeem her promises to the Armenians; in Egypt she is menaced by France; and in the Far West she has alienated the good will of the United States. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "corner. Then the hon. Member for Waterford went on to say:— She has the German Empire arrayed against her; in the East she is afraid to stir hand or foot to redeem her promises to the Armenians; in Egypt she is menaced by France; and in the Far West she has alienated the good will of the United States. [ Irish Cheers. ] Hon. Gentlemen cheered these things, and this was the union of hearts! "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "enated the good will of the United States. [ Irish Cheers. ] Hon. Gentlemen cheered these things, and this was the union of hearts! [ Cheers. ] Hon. Gentlemen opposite who cheered such statements and who looked at all these difficulties and dangers that surrounded the British Empire with delight, were the very men whom the Radical Party proposed to place in supreme dominion in Ireland. 194 "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Irish cheers.", "preceding_text": "these difficulties and dangers that surrounded the British Empire with delight, were the very men whom the Radical Party proposed to place in supreme dominion in Ireland. 194 [ Cheers. ] At the same meeting the hon. Member for Kilkenny made a speech in which he said that for 700 years Englishmen had been teaching Ireland to hate them, and Irishmen did hate them and rejoiced in their difficulties. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "d. 194 [ Cheers. ] At the same meeting the hon. Member for Kilkenny made a speech in which he said that for 700 years Englishmen had been teaching Ireland to hate them, and Irishmen did hate them and rejoiced in their difficulties. [ Irish cheers. ] That, he thought, was pretty strong language for a Gentleman who really expected a sane Parliament to commit into his hands the destinies of Ireland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Irish Cheers.", "preceding_text": "hey all admired, wrote a very eloquent and able letter to The Times a day or two ago, which was one long string of denunciations against Great Britain and her people. After going through all the various exhibitions of cowardice, want of faith and honour that Great Britain had always shown, the hon. Member wound up in this way:— \"She is a bully to the weak and a coward and a sneak to the strong.'' "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter and cheers.", "preceding_text": "rough all the various exhibitions of cowardice, want of faith and honour that Great Britain had always shown, the hon. Member wound up in this way:— \"She is a bully to the weak and a coward and a sneak to the strong.'' [ Irish Cheers. ] All he could say was he could not conceive an intelligent race, like the Irish, consenting under any circumstances to a union of hearts with such a craven people. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " ] All he could say was he could not conceive an intelligent race, like the Irish, consenting under any circumstances to a union of hearts with such a craven people. [ Laughter and cheers. ] If the English were bullies to the weak and cowards to the strong, how could they pretend to look forward to a continuous union of the honourable, brave and patriotic Irish people with such a degraded nation? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "scure part of the speeches they made. He said there was no reality in this Home Rule Debate. The Irish people, though slowly, had been learning the lesson that they were far more likely to get good terms and assistance from this great and wealthy nation than they would be if their destinies were confided to the hon. Gentlemen opposite, whose ranks were only remarkable for their absolute disunion. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "ore than these islands. It meant an Empire greater and stronger than had ever yet been, and the sense of patriotism of the British people, having cut out the Home Rule dry rot that threatened to invade the whole Constitution and bring it crumbling to the ground, now at last it stood before the nations of the world as the greatest, the strongest, and the most united people the world had ever seen. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " said that England rested on herself alone. He could not help feeling a certain amount of sympathy with the hon. and gallant Gentleman at the position of isolation in which he found himself at the present 198 time. A few months ago the hon. and gallant Gentleman told the House that Ulster was herself again, that the German Emperor had told him that his sympathy was with the gallant men of Ulster. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "of isolation in which he found himself at the present 198 time. A few months ago the hon. and gallant Gentleman told the House that Ulster was herself again, that the German Emperor had told him that his sympathy was with the gallant men of Ulster. [ Laughter. ] All that was changed now, and the relations between the German Emperor and the hon. and gallant Gentleman had become extremely strained. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " was changed now, and the relations between the German Emperor and the hon. and gallant Gentleman had become extremely strained. [ Laughter. ] What effect that would have in Ulster he did not know—whether the British Empire and the flag that had braved the battle and the breeze 1,000 years would survive those strained relations between the German Emperor and the Member for Armagh he did not know. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Loud laughter.", "preceding_text": "e in Ulster he did not know—whether the British Empire and the flag that had braved the battle and the breeze 1,000 years would survive those strained relations between the German Emperor and the Member for Armagh he did not know. [ Laughter. ] All that he could tell the hon. and gallant Gentleman was that he had his most extreme sympathy, and he would now advise him to look out for another ally. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "t satisfied with the system under which they lived. He had heard it said in the course of a speech in that House that the question might be put—How was it that Home Rule was offered to the Boers and was refused to the Irish? Let that question be asked in Ireland, and the answer would at once be given that it was because the Boers had rifles and knew how to use them, while the Irish were disarmed. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "because the Boers had rifles and knew how to use them, while the Irish were disarmed. [\"Hear, hear!\"] If the position of the Irish had been the same as that of the Boers, the former would have had Home Rule long ago. An hon. Member had said that the Boers had fought for their rights, while the Irish had not done so. What was the use of taunting with cowardice the men whose hands were tied. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " had not done so. What was the use of taunting with cowardice the men whose hands were tied. [\"Hear, hear!\"] The hon. Member knew perfectly well that the Irish were disarmed, but he must also know equally well, that if the young men of Ireland had had the same opportunities as the Boers had of arming and of drilling themselves, they would not have been open to the taunt of the hon. Member. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!''", "preceding_text": "minds of the Irish people, they were as much determined to obtain it as ever they were. He knew that it would be useless to appeal to the majority of that House, who had made up their minds upon the subject of Home Rule, but he could inform them that the Irish people would take advantage of every opportunity that presented itself, whether in America, Africa, or elsewhere, to enforce their demand. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "rations they have made in reference to the subject, both in this House and on the platforms, during the late General Election. I think that the hon. Member for Waterford is under no illusion with regard to our attitude in reference to this subject. In August last I said that with regard to the policy of 201 Home Rule the attitude of the Government was one of unflinching and unchanging opposition. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "e hon. Member for Waterford is under no illusion with regard to our attitude in reference to this subject. In August last I said that with regard to the policy of 201 Home Rule the attitude of the Government was one of unflinching and unchanging opposition. [\"Hear, hear!\"] That is our position still, and I think that there is not likely to be the smallest shadow of change in that position. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": " in our Colonial and Foreign policy should induce us to grant Home Rule to Ireland. To reply to that I will only say that our attitude in regard to Home Rule is determined by what we believe to be the merits of Home Rule itself, and that considerations of difficulty or danger abroad or in our Colonies will not for a moment induce us to depart from the attitude that we have taken up in the matter. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "attitude in regard to Home Rule is determined by what we believe to be the merits of Home Rule itself, and that considerations of difficulty or danger abroad or in our Colonies will not for a moment induce us to depart from the attitude that we have taken up in the matter. [ Cheers. ] For us to take any other line in respect to this great question of policy would be unworthy of this great nation. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "me Rule, which was the necessary consequence of that General Election. If there had been this deep feeling of disappointment and of resentment in reference to this subject on the part of the Irish people I do not think that within a couple of months after the General Election I should have been received in the heart of the constituency of the hon. Member in the kindly way in which I was welcomed. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "after the General Election I should have been received in the heart of the constituency of the hon. Member in the kindly way in which I was welcomed. [\"Hear, hear!\"] On one point the hon. Members for East Mayo and for Waterford agreed—namely, that Lord Salisbury in a recent speech had insulted the Irish nation. For my own part, I should not have put such an interpretation upon that speech. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "cy pursued by President Kruger and the Boers towards the Uitlanders, this we can say—that the praises of the Boers as members of a brave and a patriotic nation are heard all over Europe, including this country. ( Cheers. ) Am I to understand that Irishmen are insulted because Lord Salisbury declared in the most emphatic manner that Ireland cannot have Home Rule? Surely there is no insult in that. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "ald of January 14 of this year, a paper which now, I believe, supports the hon. Member for North Louth:— It ( The Freeman ) also succeeded in destroying the last lingering spark of vitality in the Irish national movement. There is no good to be gained by disguising the truth; at the present moment the national movement has not a kick in it, and its death lies at the door of the Freeman's Journal. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Irish cheers", "preceding_text": "last lingering spark of vitality in the Irish national movement. There is no good to be gained by disguising the truth; at the present moment the national movement has not a kick in it, and its death lies at the door of the Freeman's Journal. [ Laughter. ] Now, Sir, let me candidly say that I think several of these statements go very considerably beyond the truth. I do not think Home Rule is dead "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Ministerial cheers", "preceding_text": "of the Freeman's Journal. [ Laughter. ] Now, Sir, let me candidly say that I think several of these statements go very considerably beyond the truth. I do not think Home Rule is dead [ Irish cheers ]; I am prepared to use another phrase, I think Home Rule is sleeping. It is sleeping very soundly at present, and I am rather inclined to think it will continue to do so for the next five or six years "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Ministerial cheers.", "preceding_text": ". Member for Waterford has desired us to avoid taunts and insults; I am most anxious myself to avoid anything of that nature, but I would venture to remind hon. Members opposite who have quoted strong statements and resented strong sentiments made by Unionist speakers, that we have even during the present Debate heard from them strong expressions which might very justly be resented by Englishmen. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "he land question, with the Board of Agriculture, and also with light railways. MR. T. M. HEALY The latter measure, it was stated, would be confined to England. § MR. GERALD BALFOUR It does not follow that there is not a Bill in preparation for Ireland. § MR. DILLON There is nothing referring to Ireland. § MR. GERALD BALFOUR Yes, Sir, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/12", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/12/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cries of \"Question,\" and interruption.", "preceding_text": "incurred penalties. Practically, he did not think America could expect much assistance from the Irish. In Ireland what were the forces? It was true they had the noble-minded heroes who crouched behind 210 hedgerows and popped off their landlords and they had Captain Moonlight, who ran away whenever the light of day shone upon him. He did not know whether America would be very proud of such allies "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/directors-of-companies-and-their-votes", "section": "directors-of-companies-and-their-votes", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "y 1896 vol 37 cc349-50 349 § MR. PICKERSGILL (Bethnal Green. S.W.) I beg most respectfully to put a question to the Chair respecting the Debate on the Address. It is whether, in the event of the Amendment to the Address relating to the Chartered Company of South Africa being pressed to a Division, hon. Members who are either directors or shareholders of that Company will be entitled to vote? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/directors-of-companies-and-their-votes", "section": "directors-of-companies-and-their-votes", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers.", "preceding_text": "ill be entitled to vote? [ Cheers. ] § Mr. SPEAKER The question whether an hon. Member is entitled to vote or not is one for the House and not for me, and can only be decided by a Motion, in case he should vote, that his vote should be disallowed. The only assistance I can give is to state that the rule is that a Member who has a direct pecuniary interest in a question ought not to 350 vote. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Opposition laughter.", "preceding_text": "of the German Empire. The other day, when I referred to the speech which Lord Salisbury addressed to the Nonconfomists, the Leader of the House objected to the reference. He said they were things not to be introduced in Debate in the House, and that I was advertising Lord Salisbury. That was a remarkable view, to be taken by the Leader of the House of the position of Lord Salisbury in 366 Europe. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "gain charged with advertising Lord Salisbury, or with calling the attention of the German Government or the Government of the Transvaal to the statement— was this:— It is now admitted that the Transvaal people applied to Foreign Powers for support. That was a most material statement, which must have had the effect of prejudicing the English people against President Kruger. Indeed, it had done so. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers.", "preceding_text": "e said, \"it is admitted.\" Lord Salisbury could not know the fact. The German Minister did know. In my opinion the statement of Lord Salisbury, was a most rash and reckless statement. It was a statement greatly calculated to exasperate the present situation; and if it is not well founded, as the German Minister says it is not, what are we to say of the Minister who made himself responsible for it? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers.", "preceding_text": " himself responsible for it? [ Opposition cheers. ] The First Lord of the Treasury says that I have advertised Lord Salisbury's statements. Well, I find an advertisement of a different kind to-day in one of the organs of the Government—the Standard newspaper. They say:— We also understand that President Kruger has complained of the language of Lord Salisbury's speech at the Nonconformist banquet. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers.", "preceding_text": "vertisement of a different kind to-day in one of the organs of the Government—the Standard newspaper. They say:— We also understand that President Kruger has complained of the language of Lord Salisbury's speech at the Nonconformist banquet. [ Opposition cheers. ] What are these complaints, and upon what points of the speech are they founded? This is a matter which cannot be left where it is. 368 "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers.", "preceding_text": "ers. ] We want to know whether the statement of Lord Salisbury or the statement of the Foreign Minister of Germany is well founded, because this matter affects the whole of our relations with South Africa and our relations with Germany; and I venture to say that any man who contributes to the cultivation of ill-feeling between the British nation and the German Empire is no friend of this country. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers.", "preceding_text": "ish nation and the German Empire is no friend of this country. [ Opposition cheers. ] I have been extremely sorry to see a great deal of rash and foolish language employed in various quarters in relation to Germany—language which is calculated to breed bad blood, not only in Africa, but in Germany; and I say that it is not in this way that we can arrive at that state of peace which we all desire, "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers.", "preceding_text": "he Chartered Company to this particular act, it, is possible that such an inquiry would be sufficient. But what we have to consider is the much larger questions that have arisen, and as to these a judicial inquiry would be totally out of the question. It is a matter of high policy—of the highest possible policy—and such a 369 question cannot be tried by any Court but the High Court of Parliament. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "r 20, ten days before 372 Dr. Jameson advanced. Did the authorities of the South Africa Company know of that letter? Apparently that letter was in the possession of Dr. Jameson for ten days before he started. What is the truth—did the authorities of the Company, with that force collecting at Mafeking, know or not know that that letter had been addressed to him? That letter was published in London "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "er, the day before the advance began, and the names by which it was signed were erased from the copy which was published. These facts make it most material to ask—Did not Dr. Jameson show that letter to anyone connected with the South Africa Company and, if so, what were the instructions he received upon it? That, to my mind, is one of the first subjects of inquiry we have to make in this matter. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "tives or by greed of gain. But that, is not inconsistent with the fact—if it is a fact—of which it is premature to judge, that he may have made grave errors which will have momentous results. But I believe that if Mr. Rhodes has committed these errors he is entirely willing to accept the responsibility of his actions, and he is not a man who is disposed to shield himself at the expense of others. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "right hon. Gentleman for his serious consideration. The last matter to which I think it is necessary to refer is the correspondence between the right hon. Gentleman and President Kruger published this morning, and which has come to a very unexpected termination, and one I am sure the right hon. Gentleman and everyone else will regret. § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN Please do not call it a termination. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "efer is the correspondence between the right hon. Gentleman and President Kruger published this morning, and which has come to a very unexpected termination, and one I am sure the right hon. Gentleman and everyone else will regret. § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN Please do not call it a termination. [ Cheers. ] § SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT Let me use a shorter and more Saxon word—I will call it a hitch. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "on of this Dispatch. Sir, the right hon. Gentleman very frankly—he has dealt with this subject with frankness and ability throughout—expressed his doubts as to the, success of what he called \"an attempt to diplomatise by new methods\" and apparently he is not consoled by the praise of the hon. Member for Lynn Regis. MR. GIBSON BOWLES (Lynn Regis) I spoke of diplomacy. I do not call this diplomacy. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " in which he lives—withdraws the plan, to which he attaches no importance, so it may be considered as out of the way. It is said frankly that it was merely offered in a friendly spirit, as a piece of advice to the independent Government of the Transvaal. I am glad to see in the papers to-day that it is said that the letter of President Kruger was written for home consumption. So was the Dispatch. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "es to the root of the whole 376 matter, and if we want to solve it we must keep it in view. The truth is, these people in the Transvaal want to settle their own affairs among themselves, and, as is reported, though the right hon. Gentleman has intervened, and with the best possible intentions, in favour of the Uitlanders of Johannesburg, they, as we understand, do not want us to interfere at all. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "s, they want to be left alone. They do not want England or Germany, or anybody else, to interfere in this matter, and our interference will not really improve matters at all. If I might I will give an illustration of what I mean. I suppose it has happened to a good many Gentlemen I have the honour to address, to think that they might be of use to their friends in reconciling domestic differences. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "onour to address, to think that they might be of use to their friends in reconciling domestic differences. [ Laughter. ] That is a delicate operation. You have no right to intervene when husband and wife do not agree or when children may be giving trouble. Still, in a friendly spirit, you do tender your advice. But, then, what you do is not to present a catalogue of the wrong-doings of each side. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "renewed laughter", "preceding_text": "mestic differences. [ Laughter. ] That is a delicate operation. You have no right to intervene when husband and wife do not agree or when children may be giving trouble. Still, in a friendly spirit, you do tender your advice. But, then, what you do is not to present a catalogue of the wrong-doings of each side. [ Laughter. ] You do not draw up a plan for the future government of the establishment "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "dren may be giving trouble. Still, in a friendly spirit, you do tender your advice. But, then, what you do is not to present a catalogue of the wrong-doings of each side. [ Laughter. ] You do not draw up a plan for the future government of the establishment [ renewed laughter ]; and, above all, you do not invite the public to come in to hear the advice that you give and the plan that you propose. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "o have published it?\" I said, Not at all, for it is inconceivable that, before publication, the Colonial Secretary should not have ascertained that it would be acceptable to President Kruger. I am quite sure that in everything the right hon. Gentleman 377 has said there was not the smallest intent to deal otherwise than in the most courteous and delicate, way with President Kruger in this matter. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!''", "preceding_text": "nditions and on a different plan. That seems to be the way out of this difficulty. With reference to the Amendment moved by my hon. Friend, I understand from him that there is no issue to be taken with the Government on this matter. They are entirely in favour of the Inquiry which has been asked for, and the character of the Inquiry and the time it shall take place may be discussed in the future. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "right hon. Gentleman. He has made some points with regard to the conduct of the Government generally, and some of the Ministers composing that Government in particular, which call for notice at once. It is hardly necessary to inform the House that the one topic which cannot be kept out of the Debate on this Address, whatever the Amendment before the House, is the topic of Lord Salisbury's speech. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": " that if Ireland were connected with us by precisely similar ties to those which bind the Transvaal to us, we could not look upon Ireland as adding more strength to the Empire than at the present moment the Transvaal does. I do not know that either the Transvaal or Ireland has anything to complain of in this matter. The right hon. Gentleman, having reluctantly left the topic of the Prime Minister "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " possibility of offence against the Transvaal or any other Powers which lie along its borders. I do not know that the right hon. Gentleman himself suggested any further steps, If these steps are sufficient they have already been taken, and the right hon. Gentleman and his Friends may be satisfied not only with the course of our policy, but the promptitude with which we put that policy into force. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "y Friend's action in making public the Dispatch—the great Dispatch—which surveys the past and present condition of South Africa. I think my right hon. Friend has received somewhat hard treatment. All parties are full of congratulations to my right hon. Friend for having communicated to the public not only all the information he received, but every step he took connected with South African policy. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter and cheers.", "preceding_text": " pursue one line or the other, but I do not think it is possible to do what the right hon. Gentleman suggests—feed the public appetite, not only from week to week and from day to day, and almost from hour to hour, with this luxurious fare, and then suddenly say to the newspapers and others accustomed to it, \"We are now going to put you on starvation allowance as to what the Government policy is.\" "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "the part of my right hon. Friend in the mutual relation between the British-born population of the Rand and the Boer Government was inexpedient and unfortunate. [Sir WILLIAM HARCOURT: \"No.\"] Well, I thought he was drawing a parallel between my right hon. Friend and that benevolent but mistaken proceeding which induces rash friends to interfere between husband and wife in their domestic relations. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "opulation of the Rand and the Boer Government was inexpedient and unfortunate. [Sir WILLIAM HARCOURT: \"No.\"] Well, I thought he was drawing a parallel between my right hon. Friend and that benevolent but mistaken proceeding which induces rash friends to interfere between husband and wife in their domestic relations. [ Laughter. ] § SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT I did not say that was mistaken either. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": ", I thought he was drawing a parallel between my right hon. Friend and that benevolent but mistaken proceeding which induces rash friends to interfere between husband and wife in their domestic relations. [ Laughter. ] § SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT I did not say that was mistaken either. [ Laughter. ] I think that, under certain conditions, it is very useful, only you ought not to admit the public. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "ng which induces rash friends to interfere between husband and wife in their domestic relations. [ Laughter. ] § SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT I did not say that was mistaken either. [ Laughter. ] I think that, under certain conditions, it is very useful, only you ought not to admit the public. [ Laughter. ] § THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY The right hon. Gentleman has, no doubt, some experience—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": ". ] § THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY The right hon. Gentleman has, no doubt, some experience—[ laughter ]—and it may be possible to interpose between husband and wife without letting the public in; but when you are dealing with great populations I am afraid that that happy secrecy can hardly be maintained, however careful you are not to publish at too early date the Dispatches you may write. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "hed him some months ago, before the recent troubles. I do not blame him for falling into that mistake, but I can assure him that the action of my right hon. Friend in doing his best to introduce what is called the Imperial factor into this 383 controversy is now not only approved by the English subjects in the Transvaal, but by the English and the Dutch populations in other parts of South Africa. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "but by the English and the Dutch populations in other parts of South Africa. [\"Hear, hear!\"] The particular plan which he has proposed, and which he expressed his willingness last night to modify as circumstances might dictate, is in my judgment a plan, or the outline of a plan, which must be adopted if the Boer population really wish to carry on a Boer Government for an indefinite period. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": " population is to go on increasing at the present rate—and there is no ground for supposing it will not do so—it becomes manifest to everyone, by the mere process of calculation, that the time must come when the Boer population—though the form of Republican government may be retained—will no longer and can no longer have the uncontrolled government of the country as they have at the present time. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": " the Rand. That this happy consummation may be attained I am sure is the desire of every Gentleman in this House, and the general tone of this Debate, as well as the general observations which have come from friendly critics of the Government on the other side, lead me to believe that, whatever difficulties may be in our way, those difficulties will at all events not be of a Parliamentary origin. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter", "preceding_text": "informal request by President Kruger to the German Consul 387 for German assistance. It must be remembered that President Kruger did not know exactly what would occur, and he should think it extremely likely that he asked the German Consul for assistance, and that accordingly 50 marines were ordered to be sent from Delagoa Bay. In addition to a Jameson's ride they very nearly had a Wilhelm's ride "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ople of Johannesburg to disarm. The hon. Member seemed to cast some censure on the High Commissioner for that course of action; but he could say that the course pursued by Sir Hercules, and the manner in which he carried it out in circumstances of great delicacy and difficulty, and at times even of extreme danger, elicited the admiration and praise of the great mass of the people of South Africa. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " the admiration and praise of the great mass of the people of South Africa. [\"Hear, hear!\"] He also differed from the hon. Member for Northampton in regard to the strictures he had applied to chartered companies in general, and to the South Africa Company in particular. A chartered company seemed in some way to be to the hon. Member what the red rag was proverbially said to be to the bull. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Ironical cheers and laughter.", "preceding_text": "to be prolonged, Sir Hercules Robinson would have to take quite a different line in dealing with President Kruger. It was believed in this country that President Kruger had shown remarkable moderation in releasing Dr. Jameson's force. He did, indeed, show remarkable wisdom; for, if any violence in cold blood had been shown to those men, British South Africa would have been in a flame in a moment. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": ", and they have suffered most fearfully from heat and vermin. § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN Perhaps it would be satisfactory if I were to state at once that, after having carefully considered all the circumstances of the case, I have felt myself justified in asking President Kruger to extend to the British prisoners the same consideration as he had already extended to an American citizen—Mr. Hammond. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!''", "preceding_text": "rtunate men in prison, men who could no longer do any act that could endanger any interest which that House was concerned in upholding? In conclusion, he begged to press upon the right hon. Gentleman the Home Secretary that he should take advantage of the present opportunity of doing a gracious act in a gracious way, which he could assure him would be fully and gratefully appreciated by Irishmen. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist cries of ''No.\"", "preceding_text": "ously advise that the clemency of the Crown should be exercised in the case of these prisoners. Neither do I complain of the spirit or of the manner in which their case has been brought 416 before the House, nor of the eloquent speech of the hon. Gentleman who has just sat down. I should, however, be inclined to say that this account of our system of prison discipline is a rather exaggerated one. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "prison discipline and management, and in whose footsteps I have endeavoured to follow, to support my view that the Regulations referred to by the hon. Gentleman do not, at all events now, exist. At all events, I can say that there is no difference in the treatment of these men, whom the hon. and learned Gentleman calls political prisoners, and other prisoners on the ground that they are Irishmen. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "sh, however, to assure the hon. and learned Gentleman that there is no racial feeling in the case of these men, and that they are kept in prison, not because they are Irishmen, but because they have been guilty of offences against society and against the country which would have caused those guilty of them to have been equally punished if they had been Englishmen or Scotchmen instead of Irishmen. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "inst society and against the country which would have caused those guilty of them to have been equally punished if they had been Englishmen or Scotchmen instead of Irishmen. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I must repeat what I have said over and over again from the bottom of my heart, that there has been no different treatment of these men or greater severity in their sentences because they are Irish men. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear !\"", "preceding_text": "ed Gentleman 417 that a great deal of the ill-feeling that formerly existed between Englishmen and Irishmen had largely passed away, and I can only say that if the remainder of that ill-feeling could be removed by the exercise of the clemency of the Crown in the case of these men I should be only too glad to advise that that clemency should be exercised if I could do so consistently with my duty. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Cries of \"No.\"", "preceding_text": "ing could be removed by the exercise of the clemency of the Crown in the case of these men I should be only too glad to advise that that clemency should be exercised if I could do so consistently with my duty. [\"Hear, hear !\"] But this amnesty is asked for, not in mere individual cases or upon the ground that these men were wrongly convicted. It is admitted that the convictions were right. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear !\"", "preceding_text": "—that when you are dealing with these offences, committed, not against a particular Government, but against society, you must not look altogether to the motives by which, the offenders are actuated, but you must also look to the methods which they have adopted. I do not desire to exaggerate the crimes of these unfortunate men, but I must say that they were of a heinous and an atrocious character. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "sire to exaggerate the crimes of these unfortunate men, but I must say that they were of a heinous and an atrocious character. [\"Hear, hear !\"] Those who have held my present office before me have stated over and over again in this House that if the intentions of 418 these men had been fully carried out they would have resulted in the destruction of the lives of numbers of innocent people. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear !\"", "preceding_text": "nnocent people. [\"Hear, hear!\"] They were in possession of explosives which, if they had not been arrested in time, would have destroyed human life to a frightful extent. Can such offences as theirs, therefore, be called mere political crimes, and is it fair to attempt to draw a comparison between their acts and that of the ill judged raid into the Transvaal which took place the other day? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers.", "preceding_text": "nto the Transvaal which took place the other day? [\"Hear, hear !\"] § MR. DAVITT In the case of the Irish prisoners' offences no lives were lost. SIR MATTHEW,WHITE RIDLEY No, because if lives had been lost through their action they would have been tried, not for treason felony, but for murder. [\"Hear!\"] § MR. JOHN DILLON (Mayo, E.) But lives were lost in Dr. Jameson's raid. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "An HON. MEMBER: \"Of some of them.\"", "preceding_text": " case of men to whom crime but no political motive could be attributed. That is a policy which I think is sound, and one which I am bound to follow. I recognise that any special reasons which may from time to time arise should be considered, but in this case no new facts have been brought to my attention since my predecessor arrived at his decision. There is no doubt about the guilt of these men. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "these serious crimes. Their case will be treated in the same way as those of other prisoners undergoing long sentences and which are subject to periodical revision, and if when that time comes—and it will come shortly now—it is possible, following the ordinary Home Office Rule, for me to find there are considerations which will enable me to mitigate the sentences, no one will be more glad than I. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/14/address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "section": "address-in-answer-to-her-majestys-most", "cue_text": "An HON. MEMBER: \"And yet he was treated as a common felon.\"", "preceding_text": "sill of a house that which 428 would probably kill the housemaid when she attempted to open the window in the morning; he did not place in the cloak room of a railway station a machine which was likely to kill the devoted officers who managed the business of our great railways; he did not place an explosive in the immediate vicinity of a gasometer in the hope of plunging a whole town in darkness. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/cycling-accidents", "section": "cycling-accidents", "cue_text": "a laugh", "preceding_text": "f the hon. and gallant Member for Essex, and if any means could be devised for securing that the persons who caused such accidents could be identified and brought to account it would be most satisfactory. § MR. JOHN BURNS (Battersea) asked, whether the right hon. Gentleman would consider the advisability of appointing 802 on roads on which cyclists frequently rode a number of young policemen "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/sunday-postal-deliveries", "section": "sunday-postal-deliveries", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "delivery and withhold the rest would not tend to diminish Sunday labour upon the whole. Apart from this, however, it is to be feared that the suggested arrangement might tend to frustrate its own object, as there is little doubt that advertising persons who desired to call special attention to their circulars and to ensure their being opened would seize the opportunity of marking them \"Important\"—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/sunday-postal-deliveries", "section": "sunday-postal-deliveries", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "ed arrangement might tend to frustrate its own object, as there is little doubt that advertising persons who desired to call special attention to their circulars and to ensure their being opened would seize the opportunity of marking them \"Important\"—[ laughter ]—and posting them for delivery on Sunday 814 morning, and thus the number of letters received might be increased rather than diminished. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/transvaal", "section": "transvaal", "cue_text": "A laugh.", "preceding_text": "has largely increased since 1894, and that all the figures are subject to much controversy. § SIR WILFRID LAWSON (Cumberland, Cockermouth) said, the right hon. Gentleman had alluded to the trial. Could he inform the House whether any arrangement had been made as to the time of the trial? § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN All questions with regard to the trial should be addressed to the Law Officers. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/torpedo-boat-destroyers", "section": "torpedo-boat-destroyers", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "and I suggest to my hon. Friend that, if the past controversy between Mr. Yarrow and the Admiralty is still to occupy the time of the House, he should seek an opportunity of discussing it when Members of the late Government who were responsible in the matter can reply, and when other builders of torpedo-boat destroyers can have their version of the transaction in question placed before the House. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/west-riding-of-yorkshire-schools", "section": "west-riding-of-yorkshire-schools", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear.\"", "preceding_text": "r. Laurie was appointed by the Commission upon evidence which satisfied the Members at the time as to his experience and ability. He now understood that Mr. Laurie was preparing a full Report in reply to the charges that had been made against his Report, and he thought it was only fair that, until that Report was received and published, it should not be assumed that the charges were well founded. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "e antiquarian interests of the remotest regions on the surface of the globe—he only wished it could spare a little time to the antiquities of the Welsh people. He did not object to the British Museum delving into the antiquities of every distant country, but it paid so little regard to Wales that it was absurd to regard the British Museum as an effective substitute for a National Museum for Wales "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "posed unreasonable restrictions on the copying of Welsh manuscripts, he was always ready to allow them to be consulted. He once wrote to a literary Welshman that he had several poems written by a bard named \"A'i Cant.\" This was just as if a person had made a collection of paintings, and in writing to a connoisseur had said he had a considerable number of pictures painted by a man called \"Pinxit.\" "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "rded a museum as a mere storehouse of stuffed whales and bottled crabs and specimens of that description. They were evidently ignorant of the fact that in the countries where education was most successfully pursued, both for its own sake and for the material advantages it brought in its train, museums, libraries and art galleries occupied a much more important place than they did in this country. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "hon. Friend to which he took exception. It was the statement that Welshmen formed one of the oldest partners in the Imperial system. They were not only one of the oldest, but they were by far the oldest. Their ancestors had developed a very high civilisation at a time when the ancestors of English Gentlemen opposite lived in mud huts and ran wild in the woods, like the \"noble savage\" in the poem. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "stors had developed a very high civilisation at a time when the ancestors of English Gentlemen opposite lived in mud huts and ran wild in the woods, like the \"noble savage\" in the poem. [ Laughter. ] Welshmen did not grudge Scotland and Ireland their grants. But they said they were as distinct a nationality as these countries—indeed that they were a more distinct nationality than these countries. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ld in the woods, like the \"noble savage\" in the poem. [ Laughter. ] Welshmen did not grudge Scotland and Ireland their grants. But they said they were as distinct a nationality as these countries—indeed that they were a more distinct nationality than these countries. [\"Hear, hear!\"] They therefore did not make an ad misericordiam appeal for the grant, but claimed it as a matter of justice. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "Laughter and cries of \"No, no!\"", "preceding_text": "a distinct nationality. Why there were four distinct nationalities in Wales. First there was North Wales, where the pure blood of the ancient Britons and the classic language of the Celts were to be found—a language which was 847 no more understood by the second nationality, the people of South Wales, than they of North Wales could understand the bastard, mongrel, provincial dialect of the South. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "rity of the nation. The fourth distinct nationality were those who represented the Flemings of Pembrokeshire, the little England beyond Wales. The Welsh were a little divided among themselves. Antipathy was sometimes shown in South Wales to Members from North Wales who addressed meetings there; but that was a feeling which he hoped would be got rid of to some extent by the institution of museums. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "stitution of museums. [ Laughter. ] As it took longer to go from Holyhead to St. David's than from Dublin to Paris, the difficulty in the way of establishing a museum hinged on the situation. But he thought he could solve the difficulty. There was a capital of Wales. It had been made a capital by general consent and not by Act of Parliament. He referred to Pengwern Powis, re-christened Shrewsbury "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": " museum hinged on the situation. But he thought he could solve the difficulty. There was a capital of Wales. It had been made a capital by general consent and not by Act of Parliament. He referred to Pengwern Powis, re-christened Shrewsbury [ laughter ], the central meeting place for Welshmen, whither the Welsh tribes went up together, if not to worship at least to talk, a sort of Welsh Jerusalem "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "l consent and not by Act of Parliament. He referred to Pengwern Powis, re-christened Shrewsbury [ laughter ], the central meeting place for Welshmen, whither the Welsh tribes went up together, if not to worship at least to talk, a sort of Welsh Jerusalem [ laughter ]. There was the great school of the West—Shrewsbury School—founded by the Welsh dynasty of Owen, sometimes erroneously called Tudor. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " of Welsh Jerusalem [ laughter ]. There was the great school of the West—Shrewsbury School—founded by the Welsh dynasty of Owen, sometimes erroneously called Tudor. [ Laughter. ] The history of the town abounded in instructive Welsh reminiscences. There, the Separatist King David was condemned by the Parliament of Acton Burnell to be hanged, drawn and quartered, a warning to Separatist Statesmen. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " condemned by the Parliament of Acton Burnell to be hanged, drawn and quartered, a warning to Separatist Statesmen. [ Laughter. ] The alteration in the Motion which he would suggest was that the words \"in Wales\" be left out, in order to add \"in some town accessible to all the inhabitants of Wales, and that Shrewsbury is the most convenient centre for a grand National Museum for the Principality.\" "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "evelopment of Welsh education lately, and there was lying on the Table a Scheme for establishing a Central Board of Education for Wales. He looked with interest and curiosity to see where it was proposed that this Board should meet, as, probably, that might be the best place in which to erect a central museum for Wales, but he found that the Board was to meet in Shrewsbury in the County of Salop. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "ty of Salop. [ Laughter. ] He presumed that the Board would determine what was to be the educational capital of Wales. When this was decided he promised hon. Members for Wales that the subject for erecting a Welsh central museum in the place decided upon would be given serious consideration. The right hon. Member for Denbigh said, \"Give us the grant first and we will find the capital afterwards.\" "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "Laughter and \"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ve intervened in the Debate if the right hon. Gentleman opposite had not pointedly appealed to me. But, from the information I have, I think I can answer the only objection he has to this Resolution, and that conclusively. He says—\"You must find your capital before you get your grant.\" Well, in commercial operations, we know that when the interest is guaranteed we find the capital is often found. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ctical illustration of a case where the circumstances were extremely similar. I am told that in 1882 the money was sanctioned for University Colleges in Wales. There was 852 then a contest between various towns which claimed to have the Colleges. The matter was referred to arbitration, and it was determined that the two University towns should be Bangor and Cardiff. Thereupon the money was given. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "use to people who are not rich, must be close at hand. To say that the British Museum is available to the people of Wales is like saying anyone can have turtle soup who can afford to pay for it. But where you have a country where education is valued, and where the people are not rich, it is above all things necessary that the means of their education should be available to them and close at hand. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ere the people are not rich, it is above all things necessary that the means of their education should be available to them and close at hand. [ Cheers. ] In these circumstances he hoped that there would be no objection on the part of the right hon. Gentleman opposite to allow this Resolution to be recorded, because he was sure that if they had the will they had the means to carry it into effect. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/museum-grant-for-wales", "section": "museum-grant-for-wales", "cue_text": "''Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "to be to have a single museum and library in some one city to be hereafter determined. He thought this was a mistaken ideal. For purposes of research it was best to have one great National Museum for the whole country; on the other hand, for educational purposes, it was better to have small typical collections and libraries, like the public libraries of our cities, in as many centres as possible. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/pensions-to-certificated-teachers", "section": "pensions-to-certificated-teachers", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "e in 1875 and 1884, and this fact showed that the teachers had really an historical claim to the demands they made. The facts, moreover, were not now denied by the officials of the Education Department. They represented, indeed, a gross breach of faith committed in the name of the country towards a class of persons as meritorious as useful, and as much needed as any class of the Queen's subjects. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/pensions-to-certificated-teachers", "section": "pensions-to-certificated-teachers", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "use, and to say a few words in support of that meritorious class of public servants, the teachers in the elementary schools. He felt that to deprive them of pensions would be a great wrong, while to give pensions to all who deserved them was to inspire all with new hope, to stir them up to new zeal, and to give them greater interest and emulation in the pursuit of their high and valuable calling. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/pensions-to-certificated-teachers", "section": "pensions-to-certificated-teachers", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "n who made money, it might be millions, might imagine that he did something for the community, but the teachers did more, because they made men, and moulded the characters of future generations. They developed the whole nation, and, when the nation learned to prize their services as it ought to do, it would not grudge them small pensions such as were now asked for on behalf of the early pioneers. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/hyde-park-disturbances-1", "section": "hyde-park-disturbances-1", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "emblems, an exhibition which alone would cause disturbance in the park. § MR. BURNS said, the hon. Member might personally not like the exposure of religious emblems, which naturally offended men of particular religious persuasions, but if the Home Secretary complied with the hon. Member's request where was this restriction going to end? If wafers to-day, why not political banners to-morrow? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/hyde-park-disturbances-1", "section": "hyde-park-disturbances-1", "cue_text": "\"Oh, oh!\"", "preceding_text": "s had been displayed in an offensive manner; he had no independent evidence one way or the other; but in Ireland they had to fight for freedom of speech from generation to generation; and in Dublin and Cork processions, with banners, emblems, and 873 music not liked in the North had been tolerated by the executive, whilst men had gone to prison for getting up similar Orange processions in Ulster. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/hyde-park-disturbances-1", "section": "hyde-park-disturbances-1", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "etting up similar Orange processions in Ulster. [\"Oh, oh!\"] The hon. Member who introduced the matter had dealt with a difficult subject with good taste and in a manner which left little to complain of; and he hoped he should not offend hon. Members opposite if he said that by the Canon law of Rome there was no toleration for opponents of Roman Catholicism either in this world or the next. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/initiative-and-referendum", "section": "initiative-and-referendum", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "to a mere body of subordinate officials whose principal business was to put into shape the directions that had been given from outside. This was very much what was going on to his mind in Parliaments already—in a Parliament not a hundred miles from that House. All legislation was going—as all administration had long gone—into the hands of the co-optative oligarchies that sat on the front Benches. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/initiative-and-referendum", "section": "initiative-and-referendum", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter.", "preceding_text": ". Many a man was fit to make choice of an expert, and it did not require special knowledge to choose an expert to clothe ideas in legal language and to judge of the amount of trust that could be placed in him by the ordinary action of common sense. He could not at such short notice go into all the objections that had been raised to this proposal, but he thought he had given a fair sample of them. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/initiative-and-referendum", "section": "initiative-and-referendum", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "uld be subjected to the turmoil of an election every three months. As regarded the question of expense, one-third of the cost of an ironclad would more than defray the cost of a Referendum. The feeling in favour of this form of direct representation of the people was growing rapidly in America and in this country. On these grounds he had had no hesitation in laying this proposal before the House. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/initiative-and-referendum", "section": "initiative-and-referendum", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " growing rapidly in America and in this country. On these grounds he had had no hesitation in laying this proposal before the House. [\"Hear, hear!\"] § MR. W. ALLEN (Newcastle-under-Lyme) said, that as a protest against the absence of the Ministers during the important speech which had just been delivered by the hon. Member for Edinburgh, he begged to move the adjournment of the House. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/irish-land-commission", "section": "irish-land-commission", "cue_text": "''Hear, hear!''", "preceding_text": " permanent civil servants, but as to that he had no damaging criticisms to make. Altogether, the administration of this Department cost the enormous sum of £86,000 a year. All the appointments were practically in the hands of the Chief Secretary. Complaints now came from all parts of the country, Ulster being more vehement in her protest and more prone to agitation than any other part of Ireland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/irish-land-commission", "section": "irish-land-commission", "cue_text": "Irish cheers.", "preceding_text": "sioners permanent Civil Servants, and then a few minutes afterwards he said, he did not complain of their being made permanent Civil Servants, but his real complaint was that the Government of Ireland appointed these Gentlemen, and that practically the appointment was 885 made by the Chief Secretary, and that the appointments which had actually been made had given rise to intense dissatisfaction. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/irish-land-commission", "section": "irish-land-commission", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " of the hon. Member for East Mayo, rested on mere assertion. The tenant-farmers, he says, are dissatisfied with the rents fixed by the Commissioners; therefore, those rents must necessarily be wrong. It is a curious state of things, indeed, to have it laid down that the rightness or wrong ness of the decision of a Judge is to be estimated entirely by the view taken of it by one Party to the suit. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/irish-land-commission", "section": "irish-land-commission", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" from Mr. SWIFT MACNEILL", "preceding_text": "It is a curious state of things, indeed, to have it laid down that the rightness or wrong ness of the decision of a Judge is to be estimated entirely by the view taken of it by one Party to the suit. [\"Hear, hear!\"] If the hon. Gentleman had given us any evidence to show that those rents had been unfairly fixed, or that the gentlemen who were appointed to fix them were by their antecedents "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/irish-land-commission", "section": "irish-land-commission", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" from the Irish Members", "preceding_text": "sioners and Sub-Commissioners are not to be appointed in the way suggested by the hon. Member, is there any other way by which they can be appointed except by the Government of the day? I must confess I see no way myself, and while I am thankful to the hon. Member for East Mayo for believing that I have gone to Ireland with a sincere desire, in all the appointments I make, to hold the scales even "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/irish-land-commission", "section": "irish-land-commission", "cue_text": "Cheers from Irish Members.", "preceding_text": "de in a totally different spirit in Ireland as compared with England. I have not had any appointments of Land Commissioners to make as yet, but I have had other appointments, and I can honestly say that I have not been prejudiced in the smallest degree by the fact that this Government represents in Ireland a minority. I have endeavoured to hold the balance even between the two Parties in Ireland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/feb/21", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/feb/21/irish-land-commission", "section": "irish-land-commission", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " at in the latter case did not differ largely from that previously fixed by the Sub-Commissioners. In these circumstances I cannot say that I think the hon. Member who moved the Amendment, nor the hon. Member for East Mayo, has really made out his case. In my judgment the Sub-Commissioners have a most difficult and delicate task to perform, and one which they approach in a spirit of impartiality. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/ashburnham-collection-of-books-and-mss", "section": "ashburnham-collection-of-books-and-mss", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "cipts formed at Ashburnham Place will shortly be placed on the market for sale en bloc ; and whether it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to endeavour to secure the same for the nation? § THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Sir MICHAEL HICKS BEACH,) Bristol, W. I do not think that if I intended to authorise the purchase of this collection I should give public notice of it beforehand. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/ashburnham-collection-of-books-and-mss", "section": "ashburnham-collection-of-books-and-mss", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "se of this collection I should give public notice of it beforehand. [\"Hear, hear!\"] § MR. ISAACSON May I ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware that there are a couple of manuscripts of great historic interest, which, if they leave this country, we may never have an opportunity of getting? § THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER That applies to any valuable collection. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/railways-ireland-bill", "section": "railways-ireland-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "uthorise, was not to be rated for local rates at a higher value than the land had before the railway was made. The right hon. Gentleman concluded by moving for leave to bring in the Bill, which, he said, would be printed and delivered at once. § MR. WILLIAM REDMOND (Clare, E.) said that there would be some disappointment that the amount to be provided by the Bill was not considerably larger. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/application-of-income-tax-acts", "section": "application-of-income-tax-acts", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "he arguments by which the right hon. Gentleman bad resisted the Amendment. The question was discussed at great length on the Finance Act of 1894, on an Amendment moved by the hon. member for North Islington, and he agreed to give the relief asked for in cases where the income of the wife was derived from professional sources. But, evidently, the member for North Islington was not easily satisfied—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/application-of-income-tax-acts", "section": "application-of-income-tax-acts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": " The question was discussed at great length on the Finance Act of 1894, on an Amendment moved by the hon. member for North Islington, and he agreed to give the relief asked for in cases where the income of the wife was derived from professional sources. But, evidently, the member for North Islington was not easily satisfied—[ laughter ]—or perhaps it was that gratitude was not a political virtue. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/application-of-income-tax-acts", "section": "application-of-income-tax-acts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "was going to say a fatal blow—would be struck at the revenue from Income Tax. It was true that the present First Lord of the Treasury, during the discussion of the Amendment to the Finance Act of 1894, stated that the incomes of the husband and wife should always be treated separately. That was all very well for the right hon. Gentleman: he was only harrying a Liberal Chancellor of the Exchequer. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/application-of-income-tax-acts", "section": "application-of-income-tax-acts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "uring the discussion of the Amendment to the Finance Act of 1894, stated that the incomes of the husband and wife should always be treated separately. That was all very well for the right hon. Gentleman: he was only harrying a Liberal Chancellor of the Exchequer. [ Laughter .] Now he desired to rescue a Conservative Chancellor of the Exchequer from the doctrines of the First Lord of the Treasury. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/application-of-income-tax-acts", "section": "application-of-income-tax-acts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "rsuits. It applied to all cases of joint incomes of husband and wife. Take the case of a man with a salary of £300 a year who had the fortune to marry a wife with a nice little competence of £200 a year. That was £500 a year between them, and they would obtain the exemption, while another man who had a hard-earned income of £500, and married a 1125 wife with no money, was to get no relief at all. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/application-of-income-tax-acts", "section": "application-of-income-tax-acts", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " who had not sufficiently considered the question, and it was necessary to be most careful in acceding to them. He went as far as he could in 1894, and at that time the whole Tory Party maintained the doctrines which the Chancellor of the Exchequer now wisely resisted. The right hon. Gentleman had been asked to pledge himself to do something on Report, but he hoped he would do nothing of the kind—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/application-of-income-tax-acts", "section": "application-of-income-tax-acts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "e doctrines which the Chancellor of the Exchequer now wisely resisted. The right hon. Gentleman had been asked to pledge himself to do something on Report, but he hoped he would do nothing of the kind—[\"hear, hear!\"]—in spite of the hon. Member for Islington and the hon. Member for West Ham; and he should take this precious opportunity of supporting the Government when it was in the right. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/application-of-income-tax-acts", "section": "application-of-income-tax-acts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ght. [ Laughter .] He begged Gentlemen on the Opposition side of the House not to be led away by the sort of argument which had been used, because it was a blow at the principle of direct taxation. They had been labouring with difficulty for years to reach an equilibrium between direct and indirect taxation; and all these exemptions were in the direction of weakening and diluting direct taxation. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "f 4s. in the pound only represented what the landowners ought to pay in consideration of being let off the feudal duties, ship money, and many other things. Far from redeeming the tax, they were desirous of increasing it. They wanted to go back to the 4s. in the pound which would produce about £11,500,000 sterling. The tendency of all mankind if money were wanted was to get it from his neighbour. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "osite to play this game for the landlord's benefit. If the tax were reduced, the entire community, which was composed mainly of poor men, would be fined £90,000 to make up for the remission made to the landlords. He read that morning an interesting account in the The Times of the Convention going on at Chicago. He would not go into the subject of that Convention, because it would not be in order. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ferred to which struck him as applying to the finance of the present Government. The able correspondent of The Times said the finance proposed by the Convention was not finance in the proper sense of the word, but \"financial freebooting.\" This proposal to remit the greater part of the Land Tax was freebooting of the most objectionable kind, designed to benefit the rich at the expense of the poor. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "hich they should have boon required to pay a much higher price. There is 1138 not the slightest pretence for looking upon it as a payment exacted from the existing race of landlords. It is as if the State had retained, not a portion of the rent, but a portion of the land. The landlords are entitled to no compensation for it, nor have they any claim to its being allowed for as part of their taxes. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "It is as if the State had retained, not a portion of the rent, but a portion of the land. The landlords are entitled to no compensation for it, nor have they any claim to its being allowed for as part of their taxes. [ Cheers .] It would be interesting to know whether the First Lord had changed his opinions on this point, and, if he had not, how it came about that he was a party to this proposal. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers .", "preceding_text": "and ignorance; some have been destroyed by fraud; and some have been acquired by violence. Private ownership has taken the place of these communal rights. And then, upon that foundation, the right hon. Gentleman put the question which startled the country ten years ago—\"What ransom are the private owners of land going to pay for the property in the land which they have taken from the 1139 State?\" "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers .", "preceding_text": "tion which startled the country ten years ago—\"What ransom are the private owners of land going to pay for the property in the land which they have taken from the 1139 State?\" [ Opposition cheers .] Why was not the right hon. Gentleman present to defend this proposal, which was ten times more iniquitous than anything that had been complained of either in the Eating Bill or in the Education Bill . "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Opposition laughter and Ministerial cries of \"He paid more for the estate.\"", "preceding_text": "ed any value their Report might have—that not only was the Land Tax a hardship to those who had to pay it, but that the redeemed Land Tax was equally a burden upon those who did not pay it—or, in other words, that the fact that some unknown person, 100 years ago, wiped out the Land Tax on his estate—was an \"intolerable burden\" upon the man who might have bought the estate in the market last week. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers .", "preceding_text": "years ago, wiped out the Land Tax on his estate—was an \"intolerable burden\" upon the man who might have bought the estate in the market last week. [ Opposition laughter and Ministerial cries of \"He paid more for the estate.\"] Surely the fact that a man paid more for an estate without the Land Tax than for an estate with the Land Tax could not be seriously said to constitute an intolerable burden. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Ministerial laughter .", "preceding_text": " said to constitute an intolerable burden. [ Opposition cheers .] He would vote against the proposals of the Government with the fullest confidence that his vote was founded upon justice and reason. § *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said that the hon. Gentleman, during his carefully prepared speech, must have noticed the significant absence of his colleagues from the Front Opposition Bench. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Ministerial cheers .", "preceding_text": "contention of the right hon. Gentleman the Colonial Secretary ten years ago. I stand by the 1798 settlement. § *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said he should like to stand by that settlement too. The settlement of 1798 was based upon an old Act of William & Mary, under which not only was land subject to this tax, but ready money, goods, merchandise, and personal property of every kind also. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "should like to stand by that settlement too. The settlement of 1798 was based upon an old Act of William & Mary, under which not only was land subject to this tax, but ready money, goods, merchandise, and personal property of every kind also. [ Ministerial cheers .] Why, under that Act the profits which the hon. Gentleman the Member for Northampton enjoyed by his personal exertions would be taxed—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "lso. [ Ministerial cheers .] Why, under that Act the profits which the hon. Gentleman the Member for Northampton enjoyed by his personal exertions would be taxed—[ laughter ]—and, further, as the Act, included offices and pensions, the humble salary which the hon. Gentleman the Member for Dundee so well earned as Civil Lord of the Admiralty in the late Government would also be subject to the tax. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " two exonerations from the tax was £132,000 a year. In other words, owners of personalty and holders of certain offices and pensions got a present from Parliament of £132,000 by being relieved of the Land Tax, and yet, when it was now suggested that land, upon which the tax fell heavily, should get some relief, the hon. Gentleman said it was more iniquitous than the Rating Bill or Education Bill. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Ministerial cheers .", "preceding_text": "owners of the land. The hon. Member could not see any hardship in the fact that though the property which had to bear the tax decreased in value the tax, being a fixed payment, remained the same. He wondered whether, if the hon. Gentleman paid a tax of £100 a year on an income of £1,000 a year, he would think it a hardship if his income fell to £500 and he had to pay the tax of £100 all the same. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " 2s. 6d., in another from 1s. 1d. to 2s. 3d.; in Norfolk, in one parish from 1s. to 2s., in another from 6¼d. to 1s. 2½d.; in Suffolk, in one parish from 1s. 9¼d. to 3s. 0¼d., in another from 1s. 0¾d. to 2s. 6d.; in Lincolnshire, in one parish from 9¼d. to 3s. 2d.; and in Wiltshire, in one parish from 1s. 1d. to 2s. 2d., and in another from 1s. 1d. to 3s. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " of the Income Tax. But if, owing to increase of value, the increased assessment should take the parish outside the operation of the clause, then the original quota would have to be paid again. He believed that the remission was well deserved, and that there was no part of the proposals of the Government with regard to agriculture which would be more welcome or which were more necessary and fair. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Ironical cheers and laughter, which were renewed as Sir W. Harcourt entered the House and took his seat .", "preceding_text": "nce. It was not that the Leaders of the Opposition thought this question was a financial bagatelle which did not require their attention. They must be well aware that no more serious question for a large number of persons had been raised during the present Session. It seemed to him that the Gentlemen who usually occupied the front Opposition Bench were 1143 unworthily afraid to face the question. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "the present Session. It seemed to him that the Gentlemen who usually occupied the front Opposition Bench were 1143 unworthily afraid to face the question. [ Ironical cheers and laughter, which were renewed as Sir W. Harcourt entered the House and took his seat .] He had seen dramatic demonstrations, conscious and unconscious, by the right hon. Gentleman before this, but never one more successful. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Cheers and laughter .", "preceding_text": "undreds and thousands in the country who sympathised with the lead given to them in those days by the Colonial Secretary. He was surprised that these proposals had not received more attention. They were not to be measured simply by an arithmetical standard, but by the significance of the broad principle involved, and that was the abolition of the Land Tax as far as the Government dare attempt it. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Cries of \"No!\"", "preceding_text": " not received more attention. They were not to be measured simply by an arithmetical standard, but by the significance of the broad principle involved, and that was the abolition of the Land Tax as far as the Government dare attempt it. [ Cheers and laughter .] The tax was at present 4s. in the pound—[ crien of \"No!\"]—and the proposal of the Government was to reduce it to 1s. in the pound. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "the significance of the broad principle involved, and that was the abolition of the Land Tax as far as the Government dare attempt it. [ Cheers and laughter .] The tax was at present 4s. in the pound—[ crien of \"No!\"]—and the proposal of the Government was to reduce it to 1s. in the pound. [ Cries of \"No!\"] He was not looking at the question from the arithmetical point of view only. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": " \"No!\"] He was not looking at the question from the arithmetical point of view only. [ Laughter .] That was the tendency of the proposal. He would say \"ditto\" to Mr. Mill in asserting that 4s. in the pound was a very inadequate Land Tax, and there were many people who held the same opinion. Would they be as contented with these proposals as were the occupants of the Front Opposition Bench? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Ironical cheers and laughter .", "preceding_text": "roposal. He would say \"ditto\" to Mr. Mill in asserting that 4s. in the pound was a very inadequate Land Tax, and there were many people who held the same opinion. Would they be as contented with these proposals as were the occupants of the Front Opposition Bench? [ Laughter .] He had not had the time to prepare an informed speech; his information on this subject was mainly of a general character. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Ministerial laughter and cheers", "preceding_text": "importance of this proposal, and he trusted that the effect of the discussion would be 1144 to call popular attention more significantly and more emphatically to the proposal of the Government. § SIR W. HARCOURT , whose rising was received with Ministerial laughter and cheers, said that if the hon. Member had given him notice that he was going to make an ill-informed speech de omnibus rebus —"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "tically to the proposal of the Government. § SIR W. HARCOURT , whose rising was received with Ministerial laughter and cheers, said that if the hon. Member had given him notice that he was going to make an ill-informed speech de omnibus rebus —[ Ministerial laughter and cheers ]—he would have been in attendance. But by some misfortune whenever he was in the House he never saw the hon. Member—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "sterial laughter and cheers, said that if the hon. Member had given him notice that he was going to make an ill-informed speech de omnibus rebus —[ Ministerial laughter and cheers ]—he would have been in attendance. But by some misfortune whenever he was in the House he never saw the hon. Member—[ laughter ]—and therefore he was deprived of the opportunities of meeting him which he should desire. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "w the hon. Member—[ laughter ]—and therefore he was deprived of the opportunities of meeting him which he should desire. [ Laughter .] Unfortunately he had, owing to the position he had occupied in the Government, to inform himself on the subject of the Land Tax, and he had to descend from the empyrean heights lately occupied by the hon. Member, and had to regard this as an arithmetical question. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Laughter and cheers .", "preceding_text": "mber, and had to regard this as an arithmetical question. [ Laughter .] When the hon. Member had descended from those heights and was able to inform himself of the fact that the Land Tax bore very hardly on poor and distressed districts, when in short he had mastered the elements of the question, he would then be able to address the House not less eloquently, but probably with better information. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Ministerial cheers .", "preceding_text": " Personally he had no opportunity of bringing forward a specific proposal for relief, and though he could not say that 1145 this was exactly the scheme he would have proposed, yet, inasmuch as it would give relief from a burden which he could scarcely regard in many parts of the country as in the nature of a differential tax, he did not feel in a position to oppose the proposal of the Government. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "the Government. [ Ministerial cheers .] § *MR. W. S. ROBSON (South Shields) said that the inequality of the so-called tax did not meet the point raised by those who objected to the proposed remission. He admitted everything that could be said about the inequality of this so-called burden, but he should like to ask whether this was a tax or whether in substance it was not a national property. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "pon it. The land had been, for nearly a century, subject to this imposition, and it had been bought and sold as though the subject matter of the imposition were not the subject matter of the sale. That brought him to what seemed to him to be the first defect in connection with the Chancellor of the Exchequer's proposal—namely, that it was really unfair to the people who had redeemed the Land Tax. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "es? Instead of that they were taking as the object of the remission a burden which was selected in times when land yielded far less than it did 20 or 30 years ago, and probably less than it yielded now—they were taking something out of the slice which was the State's, which had been the State's for a very long time, and which was never the owner's of the land, and they were giving it back to him. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "ating Bill , the Diseases of Animals Bill or the relief from taxation in regard to pictures, all came to one thing, \"Let us give money to the landlords and make hay while the sun shines.\" He, as a Radical, objected to this relief of the landlords from taxation and he would be no party to giving them £100,000 a year more. § *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER I move that the Question be now put. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ions, and the Land Tax was only £3,500. Why was this? In Leicestershire they paid at the rate of 8¾d., and in Westmorland they paid little more than 1d. an acre. These were inequalities that required adjustment by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, but for the present he would content himself by making his most solemn and emphatic protest against any further dole being made to the landlords. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " Sir Robert Giffen that this so-called Land Tax was not a Land Tax at all. It was 1155 simply an interest reserved by the State when it handed over to individuals the rest of the land of this country. It was in the nature of a rent charge, which had been reserved, and the Government had no more right to hand over the Land Tax to any set of individuals than they had to hand over Hyde Park to them. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ich had been reserved, and the Government had no more right to hand over the Land Tax to any set of individuals than they had to hand over Hyde Park to them. [ Cheers .] The land of this country was originally purchased with the full knowledge of the Land Tax which was upon it, and the successors of those who bought the land ought to think themselves fortunate that they got it on such easy terms. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "and over the Land Tax to any set of individuals than they had to hand over Hyde Park to them. [ Cheers .] The land of this country was originally purchased with the full knowledge of the Land Tax which was upon it, and the successors of those who bought the land ought to think themselves fortunate that they got it on such easy terms. [\"Hear, hear!\"] This was the last protest he would make. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "e Land Tax which was upon it, and the successors of those who bought the land ought to think themselves fortunate that they got it on such easy terms. [\"Hear, hear!\"] This was the last protest he would make. [ Cheers .] He had been in that House long enough to clearly understand the objections which hon. Members opposite had to hearing a word said on behalf of the poor men of this country. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "section": "remission-of-land-tax-in-excess-of-one", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " and this Government had already shifted half of the burden of the rates on land on to the shoulders of the men in the towns, who already paid the heavier portion of the taxation. The Government were strong, and he asked them to be merciful, and have more consideration for those men who to-day were paying a much greater share of their small incomes in taxation than the richest men in the country. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/redemption-of-land-tax", "section": "redemption-of-land-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "cially and exclusively connected with the land. That was an ignorant idea; and he would give a most curious illustration of the point. He had in his hand the correspondence of Mr. Canning with a note by his private Secretary as to the official increment Mr. Canning enjoyed in 1827. As first Commissioner of the Treasury Mr. Canning had £4,022 a year, from which was deducted £653 12s. for Land Tax. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/redemption-of-land-tax", "section": "redemption-of-land-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " of the public that the tax should be redeemed? He doubted it. When Mr. Pitt introduced his plan the tax amounted to £2,000,000. By redemptions, year after year, half of that sum was now gone. It had been squandered. The only result of capitalising that money had been to induce extravagance on the part of the Treasury. [The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER: \"It has gone to pay off the National Debt.\"] "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/redemption-of-land-tax", "section": "redemption-of-land-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "n the part of the Treasury. [The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER: \"It has gone to pay off the National Debt.\"] [\"Hear, hear!\"] He knew that; it had been whittled away by the Treasury in payment of debts that ought never to have been encountered. [The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the Treasury had never had the money, which had gone through the hands of the National Debt Commissioners.] "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/redemption-of-land-tax", "section": "redemption-of-land-tax", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "lic expense to those who already benefited so largely by this clause. They were to pay an extremely low rate of interest, the payment was to stand over sine die , they were to have other advantages, and he did not see why all these should be conceded when most favourable terms were offered. § *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said the hon. Member might have placed this Amendment on the Paper. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/redemption-of-land-tax", "section": "redemption-of-land-tax", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ng the Amendment. The hon. Member objected to payment by instalments and to any credit being given. If the Land Tax payer could obtain advantageous terms by agreement with the Commissioners, why should credit be given to him? 1170 § *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said the Treasury were not bound to accept payment by instalments, for under the clause as it stood they could decline to do so. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/duty-on-cocoa", "section": "duty-on-cocoa", "cue_text": "Ironical laughter .", "preceding_text": "retted that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not given the Committee a fuller explanation of the reason for this duty. Very few persons seemed to know what butter was, where the cocoa ended and the butter began. He believed that there was a tax on cocoa in this country because it was a drink which might compete with tea or coffee; but cocoa butter was not a drink and could not be used as such. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/duty-on-cocoa", "section": "duty-on-cocoa", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "to that policy. *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQER said he had not attempted in this matter to do anything contrary to the fiscal policy of the country. Since the last statement which he made to the House on the subject he had put himself in communication with Messrs. Fry and other firms who had objected to the duty, and he had now their authority to say they agreed to the imposition of a penny duty—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/application-of-part-of-duty-on", "section": "application-of-part-of-duty-on", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "r's certificate should be paid to the Incorporated Law Society instead of into the Exchequer. It appeared that a solicitor paid £9 for taking out his certificate, and part of that money was to be used for striking him off the rolls should occasion arise. He was to be struck off the rolls with his own money. Keen was the pang, but, keener still, to feel, His own the pinion that impelled the steel. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/appeal-from-county-court-under-57-58-vic", "section": "appeal-from-county-court-under-57-58-vic", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "e had now arrived to bring the sitting to a close. A number of new clauses standing in the names of private Members, raising highly contentious subjects of discussion, waited to be taken, but if the Committee embarked on the discussion of them it was certain to last for three or four hours. § *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER hoped that the Committee, having got so far, would finish the Bill. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/09", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/09/appeal-from-county-court-under-57-58-vic", "section": "appeal-from-county-court-under-57-58-vic", "cue_text": "cheers", "preceding_text": "XCHEQUER hoped that the Committee, having got so far, would finish the Bill. [ Cheers .] The clauses which, perhaps, might excite most opposition were not to be moved, and the others remaining to be adopted were what might be described as purely machinery clauses. § SIR W. HARCOURT thought, after what had been said by the right hon. Gentleman, that the Committee might now dispose of the Bill—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "The EARL of ROSEBERY: \"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ayers chose to indulge in luxuries of this kind, which the rural ratepayers had to do without, it was inevitable that their rates would be higher. Another subsidiary objection which was taken was that the relief given by this Bill was given in regard to rates which had been considered as hereditary. They knew what the opinions of the noble Earl opposite were as regarded the principle of heredity. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ough the expenditure of the urban ratepayer's money that the value of the land in and around the town in which he lived was increased. The landowner enjoyed his unearned increment due to the labour of the townsman, whilst his land did not now contribute anything like its proper share to the local taxation of the town. That was a grievance of which landlords might expect to hear a great deal more. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ould make the owners of buildings in semi urban districts more economical in their public expenditure. Municipal bodies, however, wanted no inducement of that kind to make them careful in their expenditure. Another innovation introduced by this Bill was that land was to be valued separately from buildings, but how were barns, pig-sties, and buildings of that kind to be valued apart from the land? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "rdinary practice, when we get into Committee, alter the details of the Bill, and therefore comments on the mere Committee part of the Measure are not very relevant to the issue which is now before us. No one can say that this Bill has been insufficiently discussed in the other House of Parliament. I think we have no probability here of an all-night sitting, and for that mercy we must be thankful. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " we do not intend to benefit will have an advantage from what we do, and there will be cases where those we do intend to benefit will not benefit as largely as we could wish. But that is a weakness inherent in all legislation, and if we abstain from legislation simply because our legislative action will not affect all classes and interests alike, we should never consent to any legislation at all. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "this reason. The Measure is only taken for five years. Anybody who knows anything of the progress of agriculture in this country will know that any Measure affecting occupation for five years will affect the majority of occupiers in the country. The noble Lord has an extraordinary belief that the greater part of this country is held upon annual tenure, and that there is a readjustment every year. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ecting occupation for five years will affect the majority of occupiers in the country. The noble Lord has an extraordinary belief that the greater part of this country is held upon annual tenure, and that there is a readjustment every year. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I wondered in what distant island the noble Lord had been living that he could have conceived such a delusion. It is absolutely untrue. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "common result to any man who manages his property in such a fashion is that he would get no farmer in the present falling state of the land market to take his land, and everyone knows what that means to the landowner. I wish to say, in passing, a word in favour of the landowner. I shall be thought to be as courageous as the well-known Scotch clergyman who said a word in favour of \"the puir deil.\" "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " freeholders of the country who cultivate their own land, and that we have adopted this particular mode of relief because we wish to make a breach in a vicious method of taxation, and to mark the injustice, of which all of us have long complained, and which exempts personal property, being about five-sixths of the property of the country, from bearing burdens which all property should bear alike. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "place, it is not, as my noble Friend pointed out, universal. In the next place, there are hopes, judging from the evidence that was given before the Agricultural Commission, that it has seen its worst, and, at any rate, whether it is universal or whether it has seen its worst or not, it is not the only distressed industry in the country, but it is the only one to which you propose to give relief. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": ". [\"No!\"] Well, what is the heaviest burden? *LORD HARRIS In the case I put rates were distinctly the heaviest. THE EARL OF ROSEBERY That was an isolated case, and I will give another isolated case—the case of a farm in Mid Norfolk. In 1884 the rent of the farm was £1,206. In 1893 the rent was £543 and the rates £39. You can hardly say that there rates were the heaviest burden on the land. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " Well, at any rate, a neighbour of the noble Marquess has given the farmer are mission of rent of £522 on this particular farm. You in your Bill, for which you have strained every maxim of political economy, give him the munificent sum of £27 11s.! Of course nobody is in such affluent circumstances as to disdain the gift of £27 annually; but what I ask is this—is the game worth the candle? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "y maxim of political economy, give him the munificent sum of £27 11s.! Of course nobody is in such affluent circumstances as to disdain the gift of £27 annually; but what I ask is this—is the game worth the candle? [ Cheers .] Is it worth while to produce a sense of injustice in the great mass of urban ratepayers in order to afford this illusory remedy to a distress which is only too real? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "red by the Chairman. There is no difficulty in making it official, and if it is not made official, what is the Board of Agriculture for? You have robbed the President of the Board of Agriculture of all his duties. Let him betake himself to a construction of a map showing the distressed districts. [ Here a map was handed to the noble Earl ] I have here a map which has been presented to Parliament. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "e are in that county several vast estates, and I know that there is a strong feeling among manufacturers and 1080 citizens that they should be allowed to acquire the freehold of their premises. There is a feeling of discontent now because that is not open to them; but what will they think when they find that they have to pay half the agricultural rates to swell the revenue of the great landlords? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ens that they should be allowed to acquire the freehold of their premises. There is a feeling of discontent now because that is not open to them; but what will they think when they find that they have to pay half the agricultural rates to swell the revenue of the great landlords? [ Cheers .] On this subject the feeling of Lancashire was plainly expressed by Mr. Whiteley, the Member for Stockport. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "nd of these the rural rates come to something like £4,000,000, so that you have left £25,000,000 to deal with. Are you prepared to deal with urban rates on the same scale which you have applied to rural rates? If so, you will have to give 10 or 12 millions in addition to the two millions which we say you are throwing away now. There is another point. What is the financial outlook of this country? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " a Peer to consider the question of our future taxation. At this moment you are mortgaging the surplus which you 1081 inherited from us. You are mortgaging it for five years, which may or may not be the duration of the present Government in Office. What is the outcome? You are spending money with both hands in a time of profound peace. You are spending a sum unprecedented except in a time of war. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "found peace. You are spending a sum unprecedented except in a time of war. [\"Hear, hear!\"] The noble Marquess found himself the other day so hard put to it that in sup port of an Imperial enterprise, which he described, and justified from that point of view, as one of the greatest moment, he had to appeal to private enterprise and private subscription in order to assist him in his efforts. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "cheers", "preceding_text": " greatest moment, he had to appeal to private enterprise and private subscription in order to assist him in his efforts. [ Laughter .] But if he cannot get his private sub scriber he must go to the public contributor. He will want money, I predict it to him, and I venture to say he will not contradict it—after the Egyptian Treasury is exhausted, and after the £35,000 has been contributed by India—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ributor. He will want money, I predict it to him, and I venture to say he will not contradict it—after the Egyptian Treasury is exhausted, and after the £35,000 has been contributed by India—[ cheers ]—when those not illimitable resources of supply are exhausted, the noble Marquess will want some money for North Africa. Is the noble Marquess quite sure he will not want any money for South Africa? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "l, I say that it is not at this time that you should take your surplus and give it in this improvident manner, not as I believe to the benefit of any class of the agricultural community, but to be spent, as they think fit, by the local authority. I come to my last point, and it is this—Where does this money come from? The noble Marquess said, with a confidence which I can only describe as sublime—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "rom any particular farm on the Hatfield estate. In fact, the last would be infinitely more easy than the first. Money is paid into the Exchequer and from the general body of the taxpayers comes the money that this Bill demands. Of course, you may call it the Death Duties, or you may call it the Income Tax, or you may call it what you like, but, of course, it comes from the pocket of the taxpayer. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/agricultural-land-rating-bill", "section": "agricultural-land-rating-bill", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "u will have from the general body of the taxpayers of this country a protest so universal that it may alarm the strongest Government that has ever existed in this country. It is for that reason that I wish to take an early opportunity of joining in that protest, and also because I believe no Bill more unjust, more inoperative, and more futile has ever been submitted to the judgment of Parliament. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/provisions-respecting-clergyman-of", "section": "provisions-respecting-clergyman-of", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ncrease the number of those who already had their doubts about the advantages of an Established Church. He was one of the last persons who would desire to see any contest between laymen and ecclesiastics of the Church, but at the same time he felt more strongly than ever that there was no other real solution of the difficulties in question than to make the binding marriage a civil marriage alone. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/provisions-respecting-clergyman-of", "section": "provisions-respecting-clergyman-of", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ous ceremony, and that being so, it was, of course, impossible for him to accept the Amendment proposed. Moreover, he felt very strongly indeed that as the Bill was passed by a substantial majority on the Second Reading, it would be, to say the least, a very unwise and dangerous course to ask that the Measure should be passed for the Third time under different conditions and in a different shape. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/09", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/09/provisions-respecting-clergyman-of", "section": "provisions-respecting-clergyman-of", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "culties when formerly the clergy were called upon to bury men of profligate and vicious character with words of the highest Christian hope, and when rather than violate their conscience by uttering those prayers they submitted to be suspended or deprived of their benefices. It was thought just to consider the consciences of the clergy then, and he did not think it was less important to do so now. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers .", "preceding_text": "nd to be created and to be dealt with by an authority not yet constituted, but to be constituted hereafter by Parliament. Meanwhile the Bill proposed that that portion of money was to be dealt with in an entirely exceptional manner. It was to be allowed to accumulate, and therefore to escape the well-known rule that a sum not expended within the financial year should be returned to the Exchequer. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "pportunity to supplement and extend the statement he had made in introducing the Bill. That statement was admirably clear, but it obviously and necessarily lacked completeness; and in several important points the House was in need of information as to the intentions of the Bill and as to the basis on which those intentions were founded; and also as to the condition of the law at the present time. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "unded; and also as to the condition of the law at the present time. [\"Hear, hear!\"] This was a Bill of a most peculiar character. It was the counterpart of the English Rating Bill , but it 1326 was not a mere replica of that Bill adapted to the altered law and practice of Scotland. The proposals of this Bill were not the outcome of any spontaneous desire or demand or necessity in Scotland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "utcome of any spontaneous desire or demand or necessity in Scotland. [\"Hear, hear!\"] The Bill would never have been heard of but for the corresponding Bill for England. The truth was that Scotland and her representatives in the House were that day, not for the first or second time, placed by the action of the Unionist Government in a position of, he would even say, grotesque embarrassment. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "r particular, by loose and indeterminate grants of money. These grants were apparently given on no settled principle, and they, were given merely in such quantities as might serve to stop the clamour of the friends of the Government who raised complaints and grievances, and possibly, also, to make for the Government fresh friends by the mammon of unrighteousness among the electors of the country. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "ties as might serve to stop the clamour of the friends of the Government who raised complaints and grievances, and possibly, also, to make for the Government fresh friends by the mammon of unrighteousness among the electors of the country. [ Cheers .] He must express his unqualified disapproval of the whole system. These grants, subsidies, subventions, or doles did very little else than mischief. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "ing the circumstances and requirements of the country and finding money to meet those requirements, they got the money and then they looked about for the requirements. The money was dangled before the eyes of the Scotch people, and the Government, whose duty it surely was to foster the higher and more generous instincts of the people, made a direct appeal to their lower and more selfish feelings. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " true that in their past history they had shown that they were endowed with a certain acquisitive faculty of which they need in no degree be ashamed, and which they had used with eminent advantage to themselves and to the Empire. But that was not their only characteristic. There were two things which the Scotch people hated with an inborn hatred. One of these was waste and the other was injustice—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ld justify its being singled out for special favour at the cost of other interests which were, if not equally, at all events nearly as severely distressed? There was nothing to which the maxim Ex nihilo nihil fit applied more truly than to the giving and taking of money, and they might be certain that, if a Bill put money into one man's pocket, there was one other man out of whose pocket it came. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "garded a railway, at about 30 per cent. below the prices of 20 or 30 years ago. It might be said, of course, that that was not a good test, because the farmer had nothing else to turn his hands to. But was there anything in the condition of this industry which differentiated it from others? If the farmer did not make the same profit he did, what had the shopkeeper experienced in the last 20 years—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": ", that that was not a good test, because the farmer had nothing else to turn his hands to. But was there anything in the condition of this industry which differentiated it from others? If the farmer did not make the same profit he did, what had the shopkeeper experienced in the last 20 years—[\"hear, hear!\"]—what had the manufacturer, or the man engaged in any industry whatever in Scotland? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "If the farmer did not make the same profit he did, what had the shopkeeper experienced in the last 20 years—[\"hear, hear!\"]—what had the manufacturer, or the man engaged in any industry whatever in Scotland? [ Cheers .] And supposing the landlords' rental had fallen in the last 20 or 30 years, had the man who invested his money in the Funds the same return now as he had 20 or 30 years ago? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " willing to do anything they could by the alteration of the law or otherwise to improve his chance of making a more ample livelihood than he did, but, on the other hand, he did not think that even among the farming community themselves they would like to receive this boon, if it was a boon, if it carried with it a burden imposed on their neighbours who had suffered almost equally with themselves. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "ally with themselves. [\"Hear, hear!\"] The farmer was to obtain relief by having his rates reduced. Were the rates excessive in Scotland? He ventured to say that over a large district of Scotland five times more harm had been done to the tenant for the next 10 or 20 years by excluding permanently foreign store cattle than good would be 1330 done if they were to abolish his rates altogether. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "ral tenant paid over Scotland in 1893 was 1s. 0⅜d. What was the state of things in the burghs? There were only five burghs in Scotland where the rates were under 2s., and one was the burgh of Culross, which he represented. Then there were 100 burghs with rates between 2s. and 4s.; 50 between 4s. and 5s.; 34 between 5s. and 6s.; six between 6s. and 7s.; and two over 7s.—Tobermory and Banff. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ish Bill as to the source from which the money was to come. It was said that the money was to come out of the proceeds of the Estate Duty, and that therefore there was no ground for complaint, for it was only a case of land paying to land, so that no one off the land would be a penny the worse. Surely 1332 the Lord Advocate did not expect his shrewd countrymen to swallow this transparent fallacy. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "nly a case of land paying to land, so that no one off the land would be a penny the worse. Surely 1332 the Lord Advocate did not expect his shrewd countrymen to swallow this transparent fallacy. [\"Hear, hear!\"] He had just spoken of a fluid, and he would recommend those who were responsible for the provisions of this Bill to study a little further the elementary principles of hydrostatics. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ting a new discharge pipe for this relief to agriculture, the Government dipped their cup into the cask reserved for the Estate Duty, the other casks would only have to produce more in order to make good the deficiency so created in the Exchequer system. The taxpayer in the long run would have to find the money, and all these acrostics as to the Estate Duty were beneath the dignity of Parliament. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "find the money, and all these acrostics as to the Estate Duty were beneath the dignity of Parliament. [\"Hear, hear!\"] There was a difference between this Bill and the English Bill. The present Bill did at least recognise the fact that there were such places as towns in Scotland. A crumb was allowed to fall from the table of the Secretary of State for Scotland for the poor dog of a townsman—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "n be affected by the Finance Bill which was before the House? He also wished for information as to the mode of collecting the Land Tax in the counties. The mode of collecting it in burghs was old, costly and cumbersome. The collection was made by the officers called Stent masters, a class of officials who were probably beyond even the almost omniscient view of the hon. Member for 1333 Lynn Regis. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "l were to be assessed alike. Had the Government fully realised the confusion that would be created by this summary proceeding in those parishes enumerated in the Return, some of them very large towns? There were many classes who would pay more or less than they did now, and it was by no means the rich who would pay more and the poor who would pay less. In many cases it would be quite the reverse. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "im say in all plainness and sincerity what, in his opinion, the best course for the Government would be. This was not the simple Bill it appeared to be. It was a large Measure which, even if the princple were excellent and approved of on all sides, would require much detailed consideration. Being what it was it would receive, he was afraid he must say, the most stubborn and protracted opposition. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "laughter and cheers", "preceding_text": "if the princple were excellent and approved of on all sides, would require much detailed consideration. Being what it was it would receive, he was afraid he must say, the most stubborn and protracted opposition. [ Cheers .] That being so, why should not the Government, in view of the already overladen legislative vessel which they were steering, withdraw this Bill—they knew how to withdraw a Bill—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "t being so, why should not the Government, in view of the already overladen legislative vessel which they were steering, withdraw this Bill—they knew how to withdraw a Bill—[ laughter and cheers ]—and let the money accruing to Scotland be held up until full opportunity was given for the Scotch people to form and express a judgment as to the object or objects to which this money should be devoted? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "e to form and express a judgment as to the object or objects to which this money should be devoted? [\"Hear, hear!\"] When that judgment was ascertained he felt certain that the object so selected would not be such as would benefit an individual class or interest, however deserving of sympathy and help it might be, but would be such as would be of lasting advantage to the community at large. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": " hon. Members who were much better qualified by knowledge of the subject than he was to second the Amendment of his right hon. Friend, but he ventured to say there was no one on that side of the House whose intervention at that moment could be more seasonably appropriate than his own, for he was one of the first fruits of the new agricultural policy of the President of the Local Government Board. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "new agricultural policy of the President of the Local Government Board. [ Laughter .] He wished he could think that he was a sample to the right hon. Gentleman's liking, though he feared he could not flatter himself with so fond a hope, but if that were so he might venture to say, without aspiring to the rôle of a prophet, that the future bulk would not please him any more than the sample. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": " future bulk would not please him any more than the sample. [ Laughter .] With regard to the Bill, he agreed with his right hon. Friend that there were in it certain curious clauses which might be almost described as excrescences, clauses that, as it seemed to him, had nothing more in common with the Measure than a fungus with the rotten tree upon which it had been grafted by some wandering wind. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " for the land now let at a very high rent. If the purpose of the Bill was to grant relief to distress, why should this £7,000 be given to the burghs in question? The answer seemed to him to be obvious, and, speaking in plainer language than that used by his right hon. Friend, he would say that he regarded it as a bribe to the burghs, which, he would remind hon. Members, were Parliamentary burghs. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "he regarded it as a bribe to the burghs, which, he would remind hon. Members, were Parliamentary burghs. [\"Hear, hear!\"] But if the Lord Advocate or the Government thought that these burghs were to be bought for £5,000, or that the Highlands were to be bought for £15,000, he could only say that the right hon. Gentleman did not really understand or rightly estimate the nature of the people. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "m personal property. That point had been admirably dealt with by his right hon. Friend, and he would only add that he believed it would be as difficult for the Lord Advocate to attribute this relief money to any particular fund as for the Thames Water Supply Company to endeavour out of the commingled waters of the Thames to supply each of its customers with water from his own favourite tributary. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "rpose the money was to be applied and how it was to be administered. There was not a single word as to either in the Bill, and he confessed he was surprised that, from first to last, the Lord Advocate had not offered any evidence whatever to show that there was such distress in the country as would induce any reasonable body of men pretending to be legislators to grant relief of this description. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "d any evidence whatever to show that there was such distress in the country as would induce any reasonable body of men pretending to be legislators to grant relief of this description. [\"Hear, hear!\"] If this was a serious proposal to relieve the congested districts in the Highlands, the sum proposed to be given for the purpose was no more than a mere recognition—it was utterly inadequate. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "utterly inadequate. [\"Hear, hear!\"] There was another point for consideration. It was proposed with this paltry sum of £15,000 to create a new Board for the distribution of the money. But why create a new board? There was the existing Crofters' Commission, composed of men of experience and presided over by one of the ablest men of the Scotch Bar. Why should that Commission not be utilised? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "existing Crofters' Commission, composed of men of experience and presided over by one of the ablest men of the Scotch Bar. Why should that Commission not be utilised? [\"Hear, hear!\"] The creation of a new Board meant the appointment of a new staff, and he feared that very little of the £15,000 would be left for the relief of distress after the expenses and salaries of a new Board were met. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "overtaxed to the extent of £2,750,000. In such circumstances, how could they be certain that the proportion of eleven-hundredths was a fair proportion in regard to taxation for Scotland? It was a singular thing that, if the relief granted to Scotland were taxed on the rateable value of agricultural land, she ought to receive a much larger sum than it was proposed to give her under 1341 this Bill. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": ". [\"Hear, hear!\"] Scotland, in this case, was to receive relief to the extent of five-sixteenths of the rates, whereas England, under the English fill, was to receive relief to the extent of one-half of the rates. Surely, there was something unfair to Scotland in that arrangement, for the relief granted to Scotland in proportion to rateable value was much less than that granted to England. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "England, under the English fill, was to receive relief to the extent of one-half of the rates. Surely, there was something unfair to Scotland in that arrangement, for the relief granted to Scotland in proportion to rateable value was much less than that granted to England. [\"Hear, hear!\"] He therefore denied that this could be called, as it had been termed, an equivalent grant to Scotland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "st 10 years there had been agricultural depression, and that it had been very severe in all the districts, with the exception possibly of a certain area in Mid and West Lothian. In these cases the depression was not quite so severe. Both landlords and tenants had felt the pressure of hard times. At no time within their experience had times been worse than they now were to Scottish tenant farmers. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "was very difficult to accurately estimate ought to be remembered. In the earlier Return unlet shootings were not entered, but in the meantime an Act was passed by which they were put in the valuation roll and assessed, and consequently they swelled the second Return. He did not need to tell the House that in some Scottish counties the valuation of unlet shootings represented a substantial figure. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Ministerial cheers .", "preceding_text": "he gave were taken from Mr. Hope's Return, and showed that the rent in a particular instance was £900 and the public burdens only £60. He (the Lord Advocate) would take these figures. The Report showed that the profit of the farmer was only £121. Under the Bill, supposing it to be in an unclassified parish, that farmer would get £37 18s. into his pocket, an addition of 30 per cent. to his income. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Renewed cheers .", "preceding_text": "t the rent in a particular instance was £900 and the public burdens only £60. He (the Lord Advocate) would take these figures. The Report showed that the profit of the farmer was only £121. Under the Bill, supposing it to be in an unclassified parish, that farmer would get £37 18s. into his pocket, an addition of 30 per cent. to his income. [ Ministerial cheers .] Was that \"a drop in the bucket?\" "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "gures. The Report showed that the profit of the farmer was only £121. Under the Bill, supposing it to be in an unclassified parish, that farmer would get £37 18s. into his pocket, an addition of 30 per cent. to his income. [ Ministerial cheers .] Was that \"a drop in the bucket?\" [ Renewed cheers .] It was, of course, a small thing to some of his millionaire Friends on the other side of the House. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers .", "preceding_text": "ng it to be in an unclassified parish, that farmer would get £37 18s. into his pocket, an addition of 30 per cent. to his income. [ Ministerial cheers .] Was that \"a drop in the bucket?\" [ Renewed cheers .] It was, of course, a small thing to some of his millionaire Friends on the other side of the House. [ Laughter .] § SIR H. CAMPBELL - BANNERMAN It is a small thing compared with the rent. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "sition cheers .] § *THE LORD ADVOCATE said he would not deal with that observation further than to remark that it seemed to be thought by hon. Gentlemen opposite that, as long as there was any rent to be paid at all, the only relief given ought to come out of rent, they forgetting that, after all, land was the landlord's capital, and that they could not expect him to supply that for nothing. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "s were there was a landward burghal district, and where the parish council was elected practically by the burghal interest, they had been dropping classifications, and there was a most piteous wail from Renfrew this very season, the result of the action of the Renfrew Parish Council having been that the farmers in that parish had now got to pay exactly three times the rate they had to pay before. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "n. They had sent up several classfications that were not accepted by the Local Government Board. The general idea of some of these, which were extreme cases, was that sporting tenants should pay two rents; people like bankers, or anybody else who looked well-to-do, should pay one rate; and that, coming down to the ordinary farmer, he should pay half a rate; and the crofter a quarter or an eighth. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "h. [ Laughter .] He was afraid that the only general rule which was to be drawn from this was that in these matters local bodies would be governed to a great extent by the predominant interest in the local council, and he thought that in a question of this sort it was not desirable that the matter should be affected by local feeling, it being really a matter for the Imperial Parliament to settle. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "e continuance of this class legislation—for the benefit of a class—would more and more open the eyes of the intelligent people of Scotland to the purposes to which the Party opposite were putting the majority given to them at the last election. The Bill had already caused the greatest dissatisfaction in the constituency he represented, and he believed the feeling would spread throughout Scotland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers", "preceding_text": "d spread throughout Scotland. [\"Hear, hear!\"] § *MR. SHAW-STEWART (Renfrew E.) said there seemed to be a misapprehension as to the manner in which the Bill was to be applied. He represented a county constituency, but he had a good many urban constituents in his division, and speaking for them he had no hesitation in saying that all they wanted was that justice should be done all round—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Opposition cries of \"No!\"", "preceding_text": "y a fair Bill. The relief the Bill proposed to give to the agricultural tenants would come from the Imperial Exchequer. The right hon. Gentleman, the Member for the Bridgeton Division of Glasgow had said that the relief would be given at the expense of his constituents who 1361 had nothing to do with agricultural land. But the relief came from the general taxpayers who were the well-to-do classes "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Renewed cries of \"No!\"", "preceding_text": "rial Exchequer. The right hon. Gentleman, the Member for the Bridgeton Division of Glasgow had said that the relief would be given at the expense of his constituents who 1361 had nothing to do with agricultural land. But the relief came from the general taxpayers who were the well-to-do classes [ Opposition cries of \"No!\"] It was the well-to-do classes that kept the Imperial Treasury full. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Opposition cries of \"Yes!\"", "preceding_text": "ultural land. But the relief came from the general taxpayers who were the well-to-do classes [ Opposition cries of \"No!\"] It was the well-to-do classes that kept the Imperial Treasury full. [ Renewed cries of \"No!\"] He did not deny that poor men contributed something; but would hon. Gentlemen opposite contend that the greater part of taxation was not borne by the well-to-do classes? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "An HON. MEMBER: \"What about the Excise?\"", "preceding_text": " of \"No!\"] It was the well-to-do classes that kept the Imperial Treasury full. [ Renewed cries of \"No!\"] He did not deny that poor men contributed something; but would hon. Gentlemen opposite contend that the greater part of taxation was not borne by the well-to-do classes? [ Opposition cries of \"Yes!\"] Then what about the Finance Act , the Death Duties and the Estate Duties? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers .", "preceding_text": "nd; and he could say from his own personal knowledge—for he had recently seen some of the work of that Board in Donegal and Galway—that if the money proposed to be allocated for Scotland was expended in the useful way it was spent in Ireland, the Highlands would benefit greatly indeed. Hon. Members opposite had declared that they would try to raise feeling in the urban districts against the Bill. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": " why the inequalities of a portion of that system should not be remedied now. SIR T. D. GIBSON CARMICHAEL (Edinburgh, Mid Lothian), who was received with Opposition cheers, opposed the Bill in a maiden speech. He said he rose because he looked at the subject from a different point of view from many who sat on his side of the House, and because he had a natural desire to get his first speech over. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "ting. He was perfectly willing to give the Government credit for a desire to do two good things with one Bill, but if this was the best they could do for one or other of those subjects he could not congratulate them. There was depression in agriculture in Scotland, though not so much depression as existed in England. Indeed, until England drew up to Scotland, which he did not see much prospect of—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "if this was the best they could do for one or other of those subjects he could not congratulate them. There was depression in agriculture in Scotland, though not so much depression as existed in England. Indeed, until England drew up to Scotland, which he did not see much prospect of—[ laughter ]—or until Scotland fell back to the level of Eng-' land, which he did not think Scotland would ever do—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "d. He thought the method in which the relief was to be given was a great objection to it, and he protested against the Bill on behalf of his constituents, agricultural labourers, miners, shopkeepers and farmers, all of whom were paying more towards local taxation than they ought to pay; and he protested also on behalf of himself and others like him who lived in houses which were not exactly farms—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "of his constituents, agricultural labourers, miners, shopkeepers and farmers, all of whom were paying more towards local taxation than they ought to pay; and he protested also on behalf of himself and others like him who lived in houses which were not exactly farms—[ laughter ]—and on behalf of others who had large residences, and who he believed could pay and ought to pay more than they did pay. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": ", fatuous. He was reminded, in now supporting this Bill, of a story he read the other day about a Newfoundland dog, whose duty it was to bring the family pie home from the baker's every Sunday. He usually drove off the other dogs and brought it home safe. But one day they attacked him in overwhelming numbers, and finding that resistance was hopeless, he set the pie down, and helped himself first. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ing. § *MR. JAMES McKILLOP (Stirlingshire) said it had not been his intention to take part in the present Debate, but from the remarks and adverse criticisms made by hon. and right hon. Gentlemen opposite, he thought it might be his duty to make a small contribution to the Measure under discussion. The Bill proposed to give £214,500 to Scotland as an equivalent grant to which it was entitled—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "arily adopted by no fewer than 21 out of 31 Scotch burghs, each having a population of over 10,000 inhabitants. Hence two-thirds of the Scotch burghs, and upwards of 160 parishes—mostly of an urban character—would be benefited by the Bill, because in future the Imperial Exchequer would bear the burden of concessions to agricultural holdings 1375 hitherto borne and voluntarily borne by themselves. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " other than agricultural would, in a large number of cases, be positively benefited, and in no case would the urban taxpayer or the ratepayer in a town be injured to the extent of a farthing. He considered the Bill would reduce and adjust unfair burdens on agricultural subjects, and would better equalise the farmer's position on lines of uniformity more in accord with the other class of taxpayer. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "atepayer in a town be injured to the extent of a farthing. He considered the Bill would reduce and adjust unfair burdens on agricultural subjects, and would better equalise the farmer's position on lines of uniformity more in accord with the other class of taxpayer. [ Cheers .] Agricultural land was acknowledged by every impartial authority to be unjustly rated as compared with personal property. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "rought in by the Government, the working class taxpayer in cities and towns would not be benefited in the least. He was glad the Government was going to institute a searching Inquiry into the general question of the incidence of taxation, and was sure this would result in much good, especially as to the rectification of rating in towns, possibly, also, to the advantage of the poor dwellers there. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "d Tax could hardly be honestly disputed; and £15,000 as the first instalment or formation of a neucleus to benefit the Highlands and Islands of Scotland could not be better spent. He hailed any Measure which conferred legislative benefits so widely and justly given to the people of Scot- 1376 land, urban and rural alike, and therefore would be glad to support the Bill by every means in his power. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\" and laughter", "preceding_text": "he Government pay all the rates of Scotland and England out of the taxes? If they had a method which would benefit everyone, and injure no one, they could not carry it too far. This £200,000 which it was now proposed to pay out of the taxes represented a tenth of the sum raised by 1d. on the Income Tax, 2d. a pound on tea, or 8d. a pound on tobacco. They might choose which of the three they liked—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers .", "preceding_text": "ates should bear a proper proportion to his income. But that was not the universal rule in practice, for while the ratepayer in towns was rated upon one-fifth or one-sixth his income, the poor farmer was rated in the non-classified districts at one-third his income. Could such a system be defended? He might say that he was entirely against grants-in-aid. They were not to be defended in principle. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "self greatly impressed with the injustice under which agriculture suffered, and expressed his strong conviction that the time had come for the redress of that injustice. But the hon. Member did more. He proposed a vote of thanks to the Secretary for Scotland for his reception of the deputation, and said he had faith in the intentions of the present Government to redress the wrongs of agriculture. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear\"!", "preceding_text": "dealing with the whole incidence of taxation in a manner which might have been final and satisfactory, but they had gone entirely beside the main question, if they had not actually prejudiced it by their present proposals. The Bill would do more harm than good if the interests of the community were considered comprehensively, and was one which should be resolutely opposed and unsparingly exposed. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " other matters connected with land; but each of those questions would occupy a long time in consideration. He was at one with hon. Members opposite in the desire that those matters should be brought forward and dealt with by the House, but it must be borne in mind that the Government could only move step by step. This Bill was only an instalment, and as far as it went it was a boon to the farmer. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "h hon. Members opposite in the desire that those matters should be brought forward and dealt with by the House, but it must be borne in mind that the Government could only move step by step. This Bill was only an instalment, and as far as it went it was a boon to the farmer. [\"Hear, hear!\"] If hon. Members opposite did not think so, why did they not meet the Measure with a direct negative? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "d that the Government could only move step by step. This Bill was only an instalment, and as far as it went it was a boon to the farmer. [\"Hear, hear!\"] If hon. Members opposite did not think so, why did they not meet the Measure with a direct negative? [ Cheers .] No, they dared 1394 not do that because they knew that if they did so they would lose every vote in the agricultural interest. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers", "preceding_text": ", why did they not meet the Measure with a direct negative? [ Cheers .] No, they dared 1394 not do that because they knew that if they did so they would lose every vote in the agricultural interest. [ Cheers .] Consequently, while recognising the principle of the Bill, they sought to oppose it and get rid of it on side issues, and he did not think that was a fair and open way of meeting the Bill. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ould not have been introduced at a more opportune time to show their sympathy with the farmer and to afford him some relief. Moreover, it was a fulfilment of the pledges the Government gave to the agricultural interest in the Queen's Speech. At any rate, the Government had shown more desire to help the farmer in his distress than the late Government did during the three years they were in office. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "afford him some relief. Moreover, it was a fulfilment of the pledges the Government gave to the agricultural interest in the Queen's Speech. At any rate, the Government had shown more desire to help the farmer in his distress than the late Government did during the three years they were in office. [\"Hear, hear!\"] And he might say that he for one did not regard this Bill as a final Measure. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "d charges on the land remained, expenses were always increasing. Whether the tenants demanded reductions of rent or not, the cost of the land to the landlord continually increased in many ways, and not least in the fact that more improved provision and accommodation than ever were now required and demanded for farming operations. The bulk of this cost came 1395 out of the pockets of the landlord. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": ", hear!\"] Hon. Gentlemen opposite were always blowing the trumpet against the landlord, but where would the Scotch tenants have been in their present difficulties but for the landlords? People talked sometimes as if all landlords were rich through the land they owned. A greater mistake never prevailed. It was well known that many landlords did not get a shilling out of the land they owned. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ld pass the Bill—which was a much better Bill than the English Bill—without any All-night Sittings. The Bill was better drafted and it was more comprehensive 1397 than the English Bill. By their concession as to five years, the Government had shown that they had no wish to stereotype the Bill on the Statute Book for ever. He for one believed that the whole question of taxation should be gone into—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "t the farmer was rated upon his land which was the raw material, whilst the manufacturer was not rated on his raw materials at all. The answer they made to that was this—if there was an injustice by all means rate the manufacturer on the raw materials, but that was not what that Bill proposed. It proposed to to take the taxpayer's money and give a dole to one class without removiug the injustice. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " the benefit of the fishing industry in Scotland; but he did not desire that it should be applied in paying five-eighths of the fishermen's rates. Had it been proposed to expend this money upon some such object as the construction of light railways he should have raised no objection to the proposal. He protested against this money being doled out to the least deserving of the agricultural classes "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/13", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/13/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cries of \"2.\"", "preceding_text": "ck which was perhaps too often made from that side of the House upon landlords. As the Lord Advocate said all landlords were not Plantagenets. There were many landlords who had paid a fair price for their land, and had very great difficulty in getting anything like adequate interest out of the land. A landlord would be very thankful as a general rule, if he could get 4 or 3 per cent. on his land. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/sale-of-intoxicants-houses-of-parliament", "section": "sale-of-intoxicants-houses-of-parliament", "cue_text": "Laughter and \"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " the opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown as to the legality of supplying intoxicating liquors to purchasers without having obtained a licence for that purpose? § LORD STANLEY (Lancashire, West Houghton) No licence is taken out, and, as far as I can ascertain, there has never been one. I do not therefore propose consulting the Law Officers as to the legality of this long-standing custom. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/sale-of-intoxicants-houses-of-parliament", "section": "sale-of-intoxicants-houses-of-parliament", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": " obtained a licence for that purpose? § LORD STANLEY (Lancashire, West Houghton) No licence is taken out, and, as far as I can ascertain, there has never been one. I do not therefore propose consulting the Law Officers as to the legality of this long-standing custom. [ Laughter and \"Hear, hear!\"] § SIR WILFRID LAWSON Then is drink sold in the same way as at a bogus treating club? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/orange-demonstration-at-bessbrook", "section": "orange-demonstration-at-bessbrook", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "ts. § SIR WILFRID LAWSON As regards the freedom of the district from crime, is it not the fact that there are no public-houses in the district? § MR. GERALD BALFOUR I believe there is no public-house there. § MR. MACALEESE Am I to understand that the breaking of the windows of the Catholics is to be attributed to the fact that there are no public-houses in that part of the country? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/orange-demonstration-at-bessbrook", "section": "orange-demonstration-at-bessbrook", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "crime, is it not the fact that there are no public-houses in the district? § MR. GERALD BALFOUR I believe there is no public-house there. § MR. MACALEESE Am I to understand that the breaking of the windows of the Catholics is to be attributed to the fact that there are no public-houses in that part of the country? [ Laughter .] § MR. GERALD BALFOUR I have no reason to believe that. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/street-collections", "section": "street-collections", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "sent before me on which I can ask the police to report. MR. GIBSON BOWLES (Lynn Regis) asked whether the collections in question did not come under the law as to begging. § SIR MATTHEW WHITE RIDLEY said the law as to beggars treated them as rogues and vagabonds, and he doubted whether those who carried collecting boxes in the streets for charitable purposes would come under that description. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/street-collections", "section": "street-collections", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "ption. [ Laughter .] *SIR F. DIXON HARTLAND (Middlesex, Uxbridge) asked whether the Home Secretary was aware that collections were made in boxes last Sunday 1428 in all the parks as well as in the streets. § SIR MATHEW WHITE RIDLEY I am not aware of that fact. § MR. SWIFT MACNEILL (Donegal, S.) Does not the law as to molestation apply to this? I was molested at least half a dozen times. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/metropolitan-counties-water-board-bill", "section": "metropolitan-counties-water-board-bill", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers .", "preceding_text": "gainst any adhesion to the proviso of the hon. Member that the Home Counties interested are utterly opposed to the Bill in question. My information would lead me to a rather opposite conclusion. In reply to the first question, it is obvious in the present state of public business that unless the Bill was absolutely uncontentious it would be hopeless to pass it into law during the present Session. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/metropolitan-counties-water-board-bill", "section": "metropolitan-counties-water-board-bill", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "s in the present state of public business that unless the Bill was absolutely uncontentious it would be hopeless to pass it into law during the present Session. [ Opposition cheers .] I do not propose therefore to proceed with the Second Reading. The Government, however, are fully alive to the importance of this question, and they hope to take an early opportunity of dealing with it next Session. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/land-law-ireland-bill", "section": "land-law-ireland-bill", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "nance Bill is down for tonight, and it is possible that the discussion on that Measure may go on until such an hour to-night that it would not be convenient for him to make the announcement be promised? § MR. GERALD BALFOUR I would gladly comply with the hon. Gentleman's request; but before I make the statement I should like to ascertain a little more of the views of hon. Gentlemen opposite. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/land-law-ireland-bill", "section": "land-law-ireland-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "et the wishes of hon. Gentlemen and make the statement to-morrow. § MR. JOHN MORLEY (Montrose Burghs) I think the right hon. Gentleman will agree with me that it would be highly inconvenient to leave an important announcement of this sort in doubt as to when it will be made; and does he not think it would be better to put it off definitely until the commencement of public business to-morrow? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/land-law-ireland-bill", "section": "land-law-ireland-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "k the right hon. Gentleman will agree with me that it would be highly inconvenient to leave an important announcement of this sort in doubt as to when it will be made; and does he not think it would be better to put it off definitely until the commencement of public business to-morrow? [\"Hear, hear!\"] 1435 § MR. GERALD BALFOUR Yes, Sir; if that is the general wish, I will agree to it. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" from Mr. MUNRO FERGUSON.", "preceding_text": " burden of taxation of agricultural land in Scotland. In moving a vote of thanks to Lord Balfour, the hon. Member for Leith Burghs, whose factor had been one of the spokesmen during the discussion said that— former Governments had neglected the just claims of agriculturists in this matter, but they looked forward with confidence to the present Government adjusting the incidence of local taxation. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ould give them, namely, a statutory system of deductions. § SIR ROBERT REID (Dumfries Burghs) said it seemed to him most desirable in the interests of the opponents of the Bill that they should discard all these irrelevant matters. This Bill was simply the putting the hand into the pockets of the boroughs for the purpose of giving money to a small number of persons who lived in the counties. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " with the £200,000, and how they should allocate it to a particular class whom the outside world would say were their political favourites, would make the position safe for farmers in regard to the fruits of their labour, and see that they had an opportunity by fair rates and rents to make a living for themselves, he had no doubt they would be able to cope with the competition of the whole world. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "o remove that injustice, though at the same time it would probably do something towards relieving the distress. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Stirling Burghs declared that the Bill would meet with the most stubborn and protracted opposition amongst his Friends. Those words bore a family resemblance to \"wilful and persistent obstruction,\" for which the Standing Orders provided penalties. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " Those words bore a family resemblance to \"wilful and persistent obstruction,\" for which the Standing Orders provided penalties. [ Laughter .] But why had not the right hon. Gentleman taken the bold step of moving the rejection of the Bill? The reason was obvious. It was because the right hon. Gentleman knew that throughout Scotland the Bill was appreciated by very large classes of the community. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers", "preceding_text": "rs who had not heard the Debate, who, even if they had been present, would not have heeded it—would come in and overbear the opinion of Scotland. With reference to the opposition to the Bill, he would remind his hon. Friend who had just sat 1449 down that there were two kinds of opposition. There was the opposition by argument, even in the teeth of a large majority, which was sometimes successful—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "e the supporters of the Bill in order that they might know what they intended to repeat in the country. This Bill was an illustration of many Bills that had been introduced for Scotland; but a Bill had been introduced for England, and as a parallel to it something of the same kind must be done for Scotland. If there had been no Rating Bill for England they should never have seen this Bill at all. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ise it was this Bill. The Secretary of the Scotch Chamber of Agriculture—a body to which the Bill might be supposed to be specially acceptable, had said:— It was too ridiculous for any one to affirm that the relief proposed to be given to agriculture was in any way connected with agricultural depression. He would adopt that language. It was too ridiculous to imagine that this was a relief at all. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "cheers", "preceding_text": " than to make them independent. The strongest castle, tower, or town, The golden bullet beats it down. That was the policy of Her Majesty's Government. But they might depend upon it that, as their delusive favours slipped through the hands of the tenantry of Scotland, their vision would become clearer as to where the real remedy lay. The Government had raised the land question in all its bearings "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "roposals which were recommended by just principle, by the reports of commissions, and by universal experience. As to the statement that this Bill was one to change the 1459 incident of local rating, he denied it flatly. What they did was to make a hotch-pot of the subject of rating by importing Imperial funds into local finance in such a way as to commit a fraud on the general body of the people. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "oilers in the Scotch towns would obtain nothing. People, however, were coming to understand the meaning of this Bill, which would have the effect of putting £7,000 out of every £10,000 of the relief into the rich man's pocket. The principle of classification was that the strong in a parish should help the weak, but the principle of this Bill was that the weak should bear the burden of the strong. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter .", "preceding_text": "hould help the weak, but the principle of this Bill was that the weak should bear the burden of the strong. [\"Hear, hear!\"] The result was that in Scotland the nation as a whole was on one side and the landed interest alone upon the other. Had the Government chosen to leave this question alone it would have slept as long as they remained in office, which apparently was a shortening period. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "pt as long as they remained in office, which apparently was a shortening period. [\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter .] What would happen in any of the Scotch counties when some extravagant expenditure was proposed? Why, the thrifty villages who paid the whole of their rates would oppose it, while it would 1461 be supported by the rural ratepayers who only paid 7s. 6d. in the pound of their rates. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ed in the most pitiable failure. The right hon. Gentleman desired to earmark a portion of this money. Let the Government consent to earmark the whole of it. To-day Scotland desired to pause and consider its position. It had done so before, with conspicuously successful results. Possibly all classes might be united on this subject if it were agreed to apply this money to the purposes of education. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ee secondary and university education in the country also made free—thrown open to every capable son and daughter of Scotland by means of the money of the nation at large. His advice to the Government was that they should profit by past experience on this question, and that they should take counsel of Scotland with her broad and enlightened views rather than of England with her sectional demands. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "the fact that he was neither a landlord nor a tenant, he asked the House to allow him to make a few remarks. Until the hon. and learned Gentleman who last spoke rose, 1462 the Debate had been carried on with considerable good humour on both sides and it took a considerable amount of courage to rise as a Member of a degraded Party, who was seeking to debauch the farmers and commit fraud all round. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "fect of which in his constituency was that on the death of certain individuals a large sum in cash would be removed therefrom. Under the provisions of this Bill a large amount of Imperial money would be left in his country. The farmers and the crofters and the other members of the agricultural population valued that, and he had never heard of any Scotch community that did not value the cash down. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "dour admitted that the Bill was not a panacea or, indeed, any measure of relief, for agricultural distress. The microscopic relief afforded to the occupier under the Bill would in no way resuscitate agriculture or meet the constant complaint of the farmer with regard to low prices. The farmer could only be benefited in two ways—either by paying less rent, or getting higher prices for his produce. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": " taxation, the Bill did not even profess to cure it. All the Bill did was to assert, without proving it, that the present system was unfair, and then proceed to give a dole in order to induce people to allow that unfair state of things to continue a little longer. It was as if one man were to say to another: \"If justice were done I should owe you £10; but as justice is not to be done here is 6d.\" "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "present system of local taxation in Scotland was unjust. All sorts of mythical persons had been invented. They had heard of the man of boundless wealth living in a remote agricultural district in a mean house, sometimes it was even hinted in lodgings, and who did not contribute as he ought to do to the local burdens of the community. He did not believe in 1466 these mute, inglorious millionaires. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": " agricultural district in a mean house, sometimes it was even hinted in lodgings, and who did not contribute as he ought to do to the local burdens of the community. He did not believe in 1466 these mute, inglorious millionaires. [ Laughter .] He could not believe that any man who, ex hypothesi , might live a voluptuous life in a villa on the Medriterranean would live in lodgings in the Stewartry "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "tion, was as rational a system as it was possible to find. It was the system recommended for England by the Duke of Richmond's Commission. Speaking for a constituency where there was a great deal of classification, he regretted that the system was to be abolished. This Bill was the consequence of the English Bill, and was not the result of any genuine demand on the part of the people of Scotland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "recommended for England by the Duke of Richmond's Commission. Speaking for a constituency where there was a great deal of classification, he regretted that the system was to be abolished. This Bill was the consequence of the English Bill, and was not the result of any genuine demand on the part of the people of Scotland. [ Cheers .] The Scotch people would take a £5 note when it was offered them. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ch people would be able to devise some better way of disposing of the money than that suggested in the Bill. § *SIR J. STIRLING MAXWELL (Glasgow, College) said he had the honour to represent a part of Glasgow, 1467 and his constituents were not, as a rule, backward in expressing their opinions. So far he had received no notice whatever of any hostile feelings on their part towards this Bill. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ition; and regarding Great Britain as a whole, he contended that agriculture was not so depressed as to justify the present legislation. But even were the depression greater than it was, why should the agricultural industry alone be selected for relief from the State? Why should not other forms of industry, which, perhaps, were suffering to a greater extent, claim, and be granted, similar relief? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ear, hear!\"] He ventured to say that the Scotch farmer, whose great characteristic was the spirit of independence, would repudiate, and not welcome, the relief which it was proposed to give him under the Bill. It was the spirit of self-reliance and independence among the people which had made Scotland what she was, and the effect of a Measure of this kind would be to undermine that spirit. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "lic Exchequer towards paying a portion of their rates. The people of Scotland objected to the principle of the Bill, and to the proposal to spend national funds for the benefit of one class of the community. If this Bill were to become law it would be an inducement to other industries to claim relief on the same ground. He should oppose this Bill because he believed it to be unjust and injurious. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "ll their present difficulties. § *MR. J. MARTIN WHITE (Forfar) said that on one ground he had to join hon. Members opposite in thanking the Government for what they had done. By this scheme a large number of Members of the House would have a great deal of money given to them, and thus the present Government were taking up in a practical fashion the Liberal policy of paying election expenses. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "mitted to him that they were entirely against this Measure. If the money was to go to the rural districts, it seemed to him by far the most satisfactory way would be to wait and take up the education money promised next year, and with the two sums to deal with the whole question of Scotch 1477 education at that time. They might in that way be able to have a splendid education scheme for Scotland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Opposition 1480 cheers .", "preceding_text": "tempt to deal with the great question of personalty and realty. It disturbed the assessment on realty without bringing it into contact with personalty at all. Therefore, under a Bill like this they had not the means of solving even any part of the problem, because it could not be solved in part. They must have all the elements for total solution, otherwise it would be much better to let it alone. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers .", "preceding_text": "any part of the problem, because it could not be solved in part. They must have all the elements for total solution, otherwise it would be much better to let it alone. [ Opposition 1480 cheers .] Why should not the Government, when they were in the course of appointing a Commission to consider this great question as between real and personal estate, postpone dealing with the matter legislatively? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers .", "preceding_text": ". [ Opposition 1480 cheers .] Why should not the Government, when they were in the course of appointing a Commission to consider this great question as between real and personal estate, postpone dealing with the matter legislatively? [ Opposition cheers .] They knew how to open suspense accounts when it was desired, because they proposed to put the relief for the crofters into a suspense account. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers .", "preceding_text": "s into a suspense account. [ Opposition cheers .] He suggested to his right hon. Friend that he might do the same with the rest of the money, and then, if the result of the labours of the Commission were to recommend that the apportionment of the money should be in the way proposed by the Bill it could be done. But it did not require any prophet to see that the Commission would not do that alone. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers .", "preceding_text": "? Because, if it should come to be the opinion of the Commission that a fair allocation from personalty should be different from that proposed by the Bill, this, at all events, would be mortgaged for five years, and probably in perpetuity. The certain results of the Bill would be to produce great hardship and injustice in some localities. He would like to hear the rural ratepayers on this matter. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers .", "preceding_text": "a word about it. He would not go into the question of whether there was any defence for the Bill on the ground that it was to go in aid of a depressed industry, because that was repudiated by the Government, except as an incident of the Bill. But the great majority of the supporters of the Bill spoke mainly of the depressed industry, and said next to nothing about an adjustment of local taxation. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " to the rating of personalty and realty; and therefore there was not that urgency which would alone excuse hurried legislation in the interest of one class. § THE SOLICITOR GENERAL (Sir ROBERT FINLAY,) Inverness Burghs said that his right hon. Friend had advised the Government to carry this Bill into a suspense account. The Government had not the slightest intention of following that advice. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "Y,) Inverness Burghs said that his right hon. Friend had advised the Government to carry this Bill into a suspense account. The Government had not the slightest intention of following that advice. [ Cheers .] They intended to pass the Bill with the least possible delay, and in doing so—whatever hon. Gentlemen opposite might say—they would be carrying out the real wishes of the people of Scotland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "ithout delay to inquire into the whole subject of rating. His right hon. Friend forgot that the Bill was a temporary Measure. The inquiry into rating must take some time if it was to be complete, and did his right hon. Friend desire that the agriculturists of Scotland should continue subject to an admitted injustice without the application 1482 of any palliative while this Commission was sitting? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "as to remedy one specific injustice in the matter of local taxation from which agriculture in Scotland was suffering. The scope and object of the Measure were described in one sentence in a resolution unanimously passed in its favour by the Scotch Chamber of Agriculture. The Bill was an attempt, said the resolution, to redeem land of the excessive share of local taxation which it at present bore. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "nd place, that there was a special urgency for the relief of that grievance, having regard to the depressed condition of agriculture in Scotland at the present time. What was there inconsistent in those two positions? Somehow or other personal property had slipped out of its due share of the burden of rates, and, owing to the facility of collection, the whole burden had fallen upon real property. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers and laughter .", "preceding_text": "hat could be devised, because by such a tax they got as near as they could get, without inquisition into details, to what a man's income was, as what a man spent on his dwelling was a fair test of what he had got to spend on himself and his family. But he had a greater authority on that matter than Adam Smith in the hon. Member for West Fife, who had enlivened the Debate with an admirable speech. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "e, who had enlivened the Debate with an admirable speech. [ Cheers and laughter .] There was a story told of a friend of Sir Walter Scott's who prided himself on his conversational powers, and who, having once met an obdurate subject on whom he could make no impression asked:— Is there anything you would like to hear me talk about?\" \"Can you say anything clever about bend leather? asked the other—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "aughter .] There was a story told of a friend of Sir Walter Scott's who prided himself on his conversational powers, and who, having once met an obdurate subject on whom he could make no impression asked:— Is there anything you would like to hear me talk about?\" \"Can you say anything clever about bend leather? asked the other—[ laughter ]—and the conversationalist had to confess himself defeated. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers and laughter .", "preceding_text": "e could make no impression asked:— Is there anything you would like to hear me talk about?\" \"Can you say anything clever about bend leather? asked the other—[ laughter ]—and the conversationalist had to confess himself defeated. [ Laughter .] But the hon. Member for West Fife would have been equal to the occasion, because he had been witty on a subject compared to which bend leather was a trifle. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "een witty on a subject compared to which bend leather was a trifle. [ Cheers and laughter .] The hon. Gentleman said that a tax on dwellings was a fair tax indeed; but when agricultural land was assessed in the same way as a dwelling-house great injustice was done. It was not assessing the farmer on his income, but upon his business premises, together with his raw material and his stock-in-trade. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers and laughter .", "preceding_text": "which was to be instituted. There was a considerable depression in agriculture in Scotland. The right hon. Member for the Bridgeton Division devoted a great part of his speech to proving that depression in agriculture did not exist in Scotland; but since the right hon. Gentleman spoke there had been a consensus of opinion on his own side that his statistics must, somehow or other, be quite wrong. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "sessment in England on agricultural land under Schedule A there had been a fall of 23 per cent. in value, in Scotland there had been a fall of 20 per cent. Therefore, if it could not be denied that there was agricultural depression in Scotland, the Government were justified in claiming this as the time to remedy by a temporary Measure, pending fuller inquiry, what was admitted to be an injustice. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "hich seemed to imply that the grant from the Imperial revenue meant an increased rate in the burghs. The hon. and learned Member for Dumfries had spoken of \"putting your hand into the pocket of the burgh ratepayers,\" and some hon. Gentlemen had prophesied a storm of indignation in the burghs. He asserted that any pressure on the burghs in respect of this Measure would be absolutely inappreciable. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "round them; and if agriculture suffered, they suffered. They would rejoice to see a Measure which promoted the prosperity of agriculture. His hon. and learned Friend opposite said this money was to be given only to the farmers in Scotland. He seemed to be under the impression that each farmer, as soon as he got a certain remission of rates, was going to dig a hole in the garden and there bury it. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Derisive laughter .", "preceding_text": "e in the garden and there bury it. [\"Hear, hear!\"] The farmer was going to expend it on his family, with the result that more money would be spent with the village shopkeeper. The agricultural labourer, too, would profit. It would very often make the whole difference of that extra 1s. a week which the farmer would like to give, but which he could hardly give because of his present burdens. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "on that in respect of a temporary remedy of this sort there would be an increase of rents even in those cases in which leases did fall in. The truth was that in this matter the language used on the other side perhaps justified the suspicion that they disliked landlords so much that, lest incidentally they should give any benefit to landlords, they were willing to continue an injustice to farmers. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "rs. [ Cheers .] The right hon. Member for Bridgeton spoke of the relief to the congested districts as utterly inadequate, and he arrived at that conclusion by mutiplying the £15,000 a year by five, and then said the interest on £75,000 would be perfectly contemptible. But who told his right hon. Friend that only the interest of this sum was to be applied to the benefit of the congested districts? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " thought right, the capital, and they believed a better investment could not be made. It was not desired to encourage emigration from the congested districts in the Highands; what was desired was to show the people there the way to live and thrive at home. The Government believed that this sum of £75,000, properly applied, might do a vast amount of good in districts which sorely needed such help. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " Scottish burghs, did the House know what it cost to collect the £7,000 of Land Tax which was got from the burghs? The collection of that £7,000 actually cost £2,000, £1,300 of which was defrayed by the burghs and £700 by the Crown. Could anything more utterly extravagant be conceived? And had not the Government, in these circumstances, acted wisely in saying that the tax should be put an end to? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "and only £1,000 had been redeemed. In the Inverness burghs the tax stood at £156; of that they had redeemed £3 7s. In Nairn the whole £7 16s., which was the quota, remained unredeemed, and Forres with £15 12s. and Fortrose £3 18s. also remained unredeemed. This was precisely one of those imposts which, having regard to the trouble and cost of collection, it was proper should be brought to an end. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "regard to the trouble and cost of collection, it was proper should be brought to an end. [ Cheers .] On the whole he asked the House to say that it was a beneficial Measure, one which would do good in Scotland, which would redress admitted grievances, and bring some palliation, if not a remedy, to a most deserving industry, the backbone of the country, which was suffering under severe depression. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": " a remedy, to a most deserving industry, the backbone of the country, which was suffering under severe depression. [ Cheers .] 1487 § MR. R. WALLACE (Edinburgh, E.) , who spoke amid cries of \"Divide!\" said his constituency took a simple and homely view of this Bill. A great deal of learning had been expended on this question, and a large amount of inchoate philosophy had been uttered. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "section": "agricultural-rates-congested-districts", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "ho spoke amid cries of \"Divide!\" said his constituency took a simple and homely view of this Bill. A great deal of learning had been expended on this question, and a large amount of inchoate philosophy had been uttered. [ Laughter .] But the people of the Canongate of Edinburgh took a direct view of the subject, and so far as he understood them their first blush of the matter was pleasant. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "section": "relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "was sorry to say, were not agreed as to its policy. Under the circumstances, though he regretted he was not enabled to press the new clause, he should formally move it to put himself in order, merely adding that he trusted that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be able to hold out some hope that next year something would be done to relieve the clergy, who were taxed most heavily and unfairly. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "section": "relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "tend 1490 the other night to convey to the right hon. Gentleman opposite anything more that that his hon. Friend had informed him that it was not his intention to move the clause in Committee, and he certainly did not convey to his hon. Friend any promise whatever to support it on Report. The clause, undoubtedly, related to a class which at the present moment was very heavily pressed by taxation. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "section": "relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " pressed by taxation. [ Cheers .] He was not satisfied, however, that this clause was the best way in which the question could be dealt with, but he would undertake to examine into the matter more thoroughly before next year, bearing in mind that the proposals in the Bill with regard to the Land Tax would certainly prove to be a considerable boon to the clergy as well as to other Land Tax payers. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "section": "relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "to examine into the matter more thoroughly before next year, bearing in mind that the proposals in the Bill with regard to the Land Tax would certainly prove to be a considerable boon to the clergy as well as to other Land Tax payers. [\"Hear, hear!\"] It would be his wish, if possible, to make some proposal to Parliament which would improve the position of the clergy in respect to taxation. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "section": "relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "as to other Land Tax payers. [\"Hear, hear!\"] It would be his wish, if possible, to make some proposal to Parliament which would improve the position of the clergy in respect to taxation. [ Cheers .] He trusted that in the circumstances the clause would not be pressed. § VISCOUNT CRANBORNE (Rochester) could not say how much he regretted the decision at which the Government had arrived. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "section": "relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "cue_text": "Cheers and counter cheers .", "preceding_text": "hem in the Rating Bill . The right hon. Gentleman said that the clergy were admirable people, and gave more of their substance, according to their means, than other persons. He very much regretted the decision arrived at, but desired to extend his respectful congratulations to hon. Gentlemen opposite for the great influence they had exercised on the Government business during the present Session. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "section": "relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": " cheers .] Three or four, or perhaps a few more, Welsh Members had, by their ability and persistence, for which he respectfully complimented them, succeeded in producing a very profound impression upon Her Majesty's Government, and he wanted to compliment the Leader of the Opposition also, although he imagined the right hon Gentleman was under exactly the same control as Her Majesty's Government. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "section": "relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "cue_text": "cheers", "preceding_text": ".] He trusted the decision arrived at would not form a precedent for other decisions. The matter was a very small one, but he hoped that when they had under consideration some important subjects relating to the Church and Church interests, Her Majesty's Government would see their way to consider the interests of their friends more than the saving of two or three hours time of the House of Commons—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "section": "relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "cue_text": "Renewed cheers .", "preceding_text": "d that when they had under consideration some important subjects relating to the Church and Church interests, Her Majesty's Government would see their way to consider the interests of their friends more than the saving of two or three hours time of the House of Commons—[ cheers ]—and would 1492 not be ready to make concessions without entering into very full explanations with their friends first. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "section": "relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "cue_text": "Laughter and cheers .", "preceding_text": "clause in Committee he could not have accepted it; because he could only have treated it in the same way as a clause which he had himself proposed, and had withdrawn in deference to objections that were made to it, in order to secure the conclusion of the proceedings in Committee. § MR. STANLEY LEIGHTON (Shropshire, Oswestry) thanked the Government for the line they had taken in this matter. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "section": "relief-from-land-tax-of-poor-benefices", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " LEIGHTON (Shropshire, Oswestry) thanked the Government for the line they had taken in this matter. [ Laughter and cheers .] Speaking as a Churchman, he was wholly opposed to the Amendment. There was a very distinct difference of opinion amongst Churchmen in the country and in the House of Commons as to the policy or the propriety of accepting State aid or money from the taxes towards the clergy. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/objects-of-national-scientific-or", "section": "objects-of-national-scientific-or", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "ncellor of the Exchequer had said with reference to this clause. He had had a great deal of consultation with the Chancellor of the Exchequer for a long time with regard to these Death Duties, and he had had many differences of opinion with him, he was sorry to say; but he had always found him ready and prepared to carry out, not only in the letter, but in the spirit, any undertaking he had made. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/objects-of-national-scientific-or", "section": "objects-of-national-scientific-or", "cue_text": "cries of \"Go on!\"", "preceding_text": "e case. The hon. Member contended that this clause imposed a duty on poor people, and let the rich people off; but he thought the hon. Member had forgotten Clause 15 of the Finance Act of 1894. That clause made it lawful for the Treasury to remit the Estate Duty in respect of such art or science collections, etc., as might appear to the Treasury to be of national, historic, or scientific interest—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/objects-of-national-scientific-or", "section": "objects-of-national-scientific-or", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers .", "preceding_text": "orgotten Clause 15 of the Finance Act of 1894. That clause made it lawful for the Treasury to remit the Estate Duty in respect of such art or science collections, etc., as might appear to the Treasury to be of national, historic, or scientific interest—[ cries of \"Go on!\"]—and which were given or bequeathed for national purposes, or to a university, county council or municipal corporation. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/objects-of-national-scientific-or", "section": "objects-of-national-scientific-or", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "es given them for investigating the matter. The right hon. Gentleman had objected that if he were to adopt that course he would be making the Act retrospective, but all he had to do was to say that the provision should not come into operation until the passing of the Act. He hoped that the right hon. Gentleman would admit the force of the arguments in favour of the Amendment, and would accept it. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/objects-of-national-scientific-or", "section": "objects-of-national-scientific-or", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " seeing them. He thought it would be impossible to put words into a clause of an Act of Parliament which would cover all the circumstances of the case, and he thought they must trust that those who had made these collections would, from the same feeling that had induced them to make them, make it their pride and pleasure to make them accessible to the public in the future as they had in the past. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/objects-of-national-scientific-or", "section": "objects-of-national-scientific-or", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "vantage of the public. They did so now at comparatively very small 1498 inconvenience to themselves. But in the case of a man of moderate means, living in a house in London of no great size, and possessing only two or three family pictures of value, surely it would be intolerable to require of such a man that he should admit the public for two hours on six days of the week to view those pictures. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/objects-of-national-scientific-or", "section": "objects-of-national-scientific-or", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "family pictures of value, surely it would be intolerable to require of such a man that he should admit the public for two hours on six days of the week to view those pictures. [\"Hear, hear!\"] Obviously no one in such a position would avail himself of the clause, and Parliament would by that tyrannical act deprive a person it was especially desired to favour of the advantages of the clause. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/objects-of-national-scientific-or", "section": "objects-of-national-scientific-or", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "99 that if he attempted to lay down any provision which would be fair and not too harsh, he would really be proposing to Parliament to enact something which was very much less than was given to the public now voluntarily by the owners of great collections; he would be suggesting to such owners that they should diminish the facilities they now afforded, and would he doing much more harm than good. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/objects-of-national-scientific-or", "section": "objects-of-national-scientific-or", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "x0021;\"] Having in view the reasons for this clause, on which he had already, he thought, said enough, he trusted the House might not be disposed to embody in it a provision which might suggest to the owners of important collections to deprive the public of the advantage they now received, and which might in its operation be extremely hard to the very persons whom every person desired to benefit. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/objects-of-national-scientific-or", "section": "objects-of-national-scientific-or", "cue_text": "Cheers and cries of \"No.\"", "preceding_text": "s, 82.—(Division List, No. 332.) 1502 § MR. DALZIEL said that he did not intend to move an Amendment of which he had given notice, but he hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would give an assurance on the point just decided, and adjourn the Debate until to-morrow. § *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said that he understood it was the desire of the House to finish the Bill that evening. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/objects-of-national-scientific-or", "section": "objects-of-national-scientific-or", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": ", if adopted, would create great difficulty, having regard to the decision the House had previously come to, and in those circumstances they had no right to treat this kind of property as taxable for the purposes of aggregation. § MR. HENRY LABOUCHERE (Northampton) said that the Attorney General had put forward matters as great difficulties which were not difficulties to anyone but a lawyer. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/objects-of-national-scientific-or", "section": "objects-of-national-scientific-or", "cue_text": "Laughter, and cries of \"Only £40,000.\"", "preceding_text": "nd learned Gentleman had spoken about millionaires, but there was some misapprehension as to what a millionaire really was. It seemed to be supposed that he was a man who possessed so many hundreds of thousands of pounds; but that was an error. A \"millionaire\" did not mean anything of the kind. \"Millionaire\" was a French and not an English word, and it really meant a man who had a million francs. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/objects-of-national-scientific-or", "section": "objects-of-national-scientific-or", "cue_text": "Ironical cheers .", "preceding_text": "of pounds; but that was an error. A \"millionaire\" did not mean anything of the kind. \"Millionaire\" was a French and not an English word, and it really meant a man who had a million francs. [ Laughter, and cries of \"Only £40,000.\"] That was to say £40,000. He and his friends would most undoubtedly make it their business to get this decision of the Government reversed. They would go to the country. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/objects-of-national-scientific-or", "section": "objects-of-national-scientific-or", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": " picture, it would be cruel to make him sell the picture. He thought the man would be a perfect fool if he did not sell it. He always regarded Charles Surface as a most sensible man in selling his ancestors. He had no ancestors to sell, but if he had he would sell them at once. In his opinion in the case cited by the hon. and learned Gentleman the man ought to pay on the £35,000. His blood boiled—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/objects-of-national-scientific-or", "section": "objects-of-national-scientific-or", "cue_text": "Renewed laughter .", "preceding_text": " Charles Surface as a most sensible man in selling his ancestors. He had no ancestors to sell, but if he had he would sell them at once. In his opinion in the case cited by the hon. and learned Gentleman the man ought to pay on the £35,000. His blood boiled—[ laughter ]—he did not know whether it was owing to the introduction of this Bill or the heat of the weather, but his blood really did boil. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/14", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/14/application-of-income-tax-acts", "section": "application-of-income-tax-acts", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "rnment could easily meet the difficulty in the way he had suggested; but if they did not see their way to do so, he should be content if it was arranged that land under Schedule B should be assessed at the same amount as the one - third assessment under Schedule A. § *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said he could not detain the House at that late hour by fully explaining the matter in detail—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "ime to raise the question. 45 § MR. MACNEILL said that the Chief Secretary laboured under the great disadvantage that he came to the discharge of his duties without any official experience. Formerly Mr. O'Connell, when a Chief Secretary was appointed, compared him to an apprentice to a barber who was allowed to shave provided that the customers did not raise any question if they were gashed. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "ould turn the matter over in his head, and endeavour to give effect to the pledge of his predecessor. But what happened. When he (Mr. Healy) questioned the right hon. Gentleman on the matter, he said he thought a Bill would settle the matter, adding that he did not think there was any prospect of bringing it in because he had ascertained there would be opposition in certain quarters of the House. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers .", "preceding_text": "he did not think there was any prospect of bringing it in because he had ascertained there would be opposition in certain quarters of the House. [ Laughter .] But why could not the right hon. Gentleman, at all events, bring in his Bill and let them see what it was like. The Government were now at the end of their first Session, and they had not even put a cup of cold water to the lips of Ireland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers .", "preceding_text": "ogged with Toryism, clogged with religious prejudice, clogged with hatred of the people. 52 Hatred of the Papist was the predominant feeling in the governors of Ireland. That was the system of which the Chief Secretary was the British mouthpiece. The accents of the right hon. Gentleman were those of civilisation, but the officials whose accents he translated represented mediæval barbarism. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Cheers, and Nationalist cries of \"Oh!\"", "preceding_text": "æval barbarism. [ Nationalist cheers .] § MR. GERALD BALFOUR, who was received with cheers, said the hon. Gentleman had reminded him that his predecessor in office had warned him against the officials he would have to deal with in Ireland. This constant denunciation of the officials of Dublin Castle was one of those commonplaces which people went on repeating until they believed them. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "ist cries of \"Oh!\"] The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Montrose should have been the last person to utter such words. The right hon. Gentleman himself should have remembered that it was he himself who had appointed the Under Secretary and the Assistant Under Secretary in Dublin Castle, and that, in attacking Dublin Castle, he was attacking the two chiefs whom he himself had appointed. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "[ Cheers .] The hon. Member for South Donegal also attacked him for having delivered himself over to the Castle officials, and as an instance of that the hon. Member stated that he had approached a Judge of the High Court under the inspiration of the officials of Dublin Castle. What authority had the hon. Member for saying that? Absolutely none; it was entirely the hon. Gentleman's own invention. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " entirely the hon. Gentleman's own invention. [ Cheers .] All he had done was to ask Mr. Justice Bewley what, under certain conditions, would be the course the Land Commissioners would think themselves justified in adopting. He did it in the interest of the tenants; he had no reason to be ashamed of it; and he did not see how in doing it he had tampered with the foundations of justice in Ireland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Nationalist cries of \"Oh!\"", "preceding_text": " reason to be ashamed of it; and he did not see how in doing it he had tampered with the foundations of justice in Ireland. [ Cheers .] He did not think that the hon. Member for Louth would have raised the question of the Roxborough schools, for the simple reason that the correspondence in reference to those schools was not of a kind of which the Bishop of Limerick ought to be particularly proud. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "casion the hon. Member had exhibited a courtesy towards him which the Bishop of Limerick had not. The Bishop had accused him, on what was an exceedingly slender foundation, of a breach of faith; and the hon. Member had said he was not guilty of a breach of faith. But the hon. Member went on to say that he had, metaphorically speaking, struck the Bishop of Limerick on the head with a loaded stick. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": " faith; and the hon. Member had said he was not guilty of a breach of faith. But the hon. Member went on to say that he had, metaphorically speaking, struck the Bishop of Limerick on the head with a loaded stick. [ Laughter .] The exact contrary was the fact. The head that was struck was not the Bishop of Limerick's, but his; and the person who wielded the loaded stick was the Bishop of Limerick. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "ought to be settled, and if there were ample time he should be quite prepared to introduce a Bill. The hon. 55 Member who moved the reduction of the Vote complained that he, as Chief Secretary, had adopted an attitude of \"masterly inactivity.\" If the way in which he had spent his days since he assumed Office could be described, as \"masterly inactivity,\" he should like to know what activity meant. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "inactivity,\" he should like to know what activity meant. [ Laughter .] § MR. DILLON I only alluded to the results. § MR. GERALD BALFOUR reminded the hon. Member that it was \"not in mortals to command success;\" they could only deserve it. As to the complaint that he was not a Member of the Cabinet, if it was particular to himself, his modesty would shrink from entering upon the question. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "land was most disturbed, there had been two Liberal Chief Secretaries who were not Members of the Cabinet—the right hon. Member for the Bridgeton Division and the right hon. Member for Stirling. Previous to that time it was more frequent than not for the Chief Secretary to be outside the Cabinet. But, at any rate, the fact that he was not in the Cabinet was hardly a reason for reducing his salary—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " and in the same breath the hon. Member complained that he had pleased nobody. He thought that was perfectly possible. He hardly expected to please anybody in Ireland, because what was fair to one party was always condemned by the other. That was, and would continue to be, the lot of any Chief Secretary who tried to direct his course, not to plase one party or the other, but to do what was right. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Laughter and cheers .", "preceding_text": "e, the lot of any Chief Secretary who tried to direct his course, not to plase one party or the other, but to do what was right. [ Cheers .] That he had tried to do. He might have failed, for the task was very difficult. But he did not think that the House of Commons would support the hon. Member in the declaration that he had so entirely failed as to deserve having his salary cut down by £2,000. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ice of the Chief Secretary on a totally different basis from that on which it now stood—to make the Chief Secretary the Minister of Ireland in reality. Until one course or the other was taken, Irish Members would have still to come to that House, as they had done year after year in the past, to complain of the position in which the country was placed, and of the injustices from which it suffered. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "to watch over the interests of Ireland—to see that she had fair play in the general Government of the United Kingdom, and that she suffered no loss or disadvantage in any respect. For the Chief Secretary was really the only Minister for Ireland responsible to the people, and through him only, under the present system, could the people hope to obtain just treatment and redress of their grievances. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " received no grant or assistance whatever from the State and had to support their own schools, while the Protestant schools were in receipt of State aid. This was a question to which, almost above all others, the right hon. Gentleman might devote his attention with advantage to the country, for at present Catholics in Ireland laboured under great disadvantages in the matter of national education. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "A laugh .", "preceding_text": "Gentleman was not concerned about the opinion of the people, why did he not try to settle the education question? § MR. GERALD BALFOUR submitted that on the Estimates, and at this period of the Session, he could not be expected to make a statement as to the views of the Government on the education question. The time to raise such a question was surely during the consideration of the Address. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "stion of the hour. The right hon. Gentleman should take some pains to inform himself of the feelings and opinions of the Irish people with regard to this question. He desired to protest against legislation on this subject at the fag end of the Session, as being most unfair to Irish Members. Legislation with regard to Irish education ought to be treated with some sense of decorum and of fair play. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter .", "preceding_text": "n, as being most unfair to Irish Members. Legislation with regard to Irish education ought to be treated with some sense of decorum and of fair play. [\"Hear, hear!\"] § DR. TANNER (Cork Co., Mid) said that Irish Members had absolutely to hold up the looking-glass before the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary for Ireland to show him his own political physiognomy reflected therein. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "hose Benches was perfectly aware that the right hon. Gentleman had no power to do anything. He might have some family influence, but, after all, that would not always be available. Whether or not the right hon. Gentleman was a man of genius, talent and geniality he would leave to posterity to say; but the Nationalist Members had found him an extremely amiable and 71 nicely-spoken young gentleman. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "n amount of welfare in Ireland. If he did so he would at any rate put down for the time that growing discontent which, from all 72 accounts, was now existent in Ireland. Ireland required a steady, tolerant, and benevolent system to relieve her from the distress in which she lived. The right hon. Gentleman was a new comer to office, and being a new boy the Irish Members Jet him off with a caution. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ccasion, he had stated to the hon. Gentleman it was his desire to carry out his predecessor's pledge, and that he hoped to be able, during the course of the present Session, to bring in a Bill dealing with the question. He had not been able to do so so far, but without saying anything more he thought he might be allowed to remind hon. Gentlemen that the Session had not absolutely come to a close. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ing with the question. He had not been able to do so so far, but without saying anything more he thought he might be allowed to remind hon. Gentlemen that the Session had not absolutely come to a close. [\"Hear, hear!\"] It was impossible for him not to appreciate what hon. Members had said of himself personally, and so far he should carry away with him pleasant recollections of that Debate. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "t he might be allowed to remind hon. Gentlemen that the Session had not absolutely come to a close. [\"Hear, hear!\"] It was impossible for him not to appreciate what hon. Members had said of himself personally, and so far he should carry away with him pleasant recollections of that Debate. [\"Hear, hear!\"] He hoped that the Committee would now allow a decision to be taken on the Vote. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "y distance, confined themselves to County Dublin? If the right hon. Gentleman could get the fishery inspectors to carry on their work on the excellent plan pursued by the fishery inspectors in Scotland, vast improvements would be effected in the Irish fisheries. § MR. DANIEL MACALEESE (Monaghan, N.) said he would avail himself of the deserted condition of the House to make his maiden speech. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "e would avail himself of the deserted condition of the House to make his maiden speech. [ Laughter .] The County Court Judge of Monaghan had quite a store of white gloves which had been presented to him sessions after sessions, owing to the happy absence of criminal cases; and it was understood that he intended to ask the permission of the Incorporated Law Society to set up a shop for their sale. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "to him sessions after sessions, owing to the happy absence of criminal cases; and it was understood that he intended to ask the permission of the Incorporated Law Society to set up a shop for their sale. [ Laughter .] It was said that brevity was the soul of wit, and he intended to win the reputation of being one of the wittiest Members in the House by making the shortest maiden speech on record. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-ii", "section": "class-ii", "cue_text": "Laughter and cheers .", "preceding_text": "up a shop for their sale. [ Laughter .] It was said that brevity was the soul of wit, and he intended to win the reputation of being one of the wittiest Members in the House by making the shortest maiden speech on record. [ Laughter .] He would, therefore, simply ask the Chief Secretary what justification he had got for keeping up the extra police force in Monaghan in the circumstances mentioned? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "evertheless the Secretary of the Treasury thought fit to make an attack on the Commissioners. In his speech on March 30th dealing with the question of the deficiency in the payments, the Secretary of the Treasury expressed surprise that the Commissioners—who were mainly Conservatives—had never raised the question until the present Government came into office. That was a most extraordinary charge. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "uestion until the present Government came into office. That was a most extraordinary charge. [ Cheers .] It was an allegation that the Commissioners of Education had abstained from performing their proper duty by not demanding the sum to which they were entitled. [\"No!\"] Certainly there was an insinuation that the Commissioners had abstained from doing their duty for some political reason, "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " that purse more than her fair share, and to the disadvantage of Ireland. Conduct of this kind between partners in ordinary business would give a right of action against the offending partner in the Court of law of any country where honesty was enforced, and the partner who had thus taken more than his fair share of the common purse would be ordered to refund that which he had fraudulently taken. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "by the House before Parliament dissolved. The Commissioners of Irish National Education were, therefore, obliged, under the circumstances, to be content with what they could get from the Treasury, which was the amount for three-quarters of the year. But when the English Government discovered the mistake they had made, why did they not bring in a supplementary estimate to make the deficiency good? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " were, therefore, obliged, under the circumstances, to be content with what they could get from the Treasury, which was the amount for three-quarters of the year. But when the English Government discovered the mistake they had made, why did they not bring in a supplementary estimate to make the deficiency good? [\"Hear, hear!\"] The Commissioners claimed that deficiency as still due to them. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers and loud Ministerial cries of \"Oh!\"", "preceding_text": "act to the Irish Education Board in order to enable them to make their estimate in just proportion. But they carefully concealed that fact, and even refused information on the matter when applied to. Those facts were a crying scandal. ( Nationalist cheers .) It would be hard to find in the whole history of international relations a more open case of designed, conscious, and well-considered fraud. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "Mr. T. M. HEALY: \"It is true!\" and several HON. MEMBERS: \"Stick to it.\"", "preceding_text": "s .) It would be hard to find in the whole history of international relations a more open case of designed, conscious, and well-considered fraud. [ Nationalist cheers and loud Ministerial cries of \"Oh!\"] § THE CHAIRMAN (Mr. WODEHOUSE) did not think the hon. Gentleman was entitled to charge a Department with fraud. § MR. KNOX said it was impossible to describe it in any other way. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "\" Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "not think the hon. Gentleman was entitled to charge a Department with fraud. § MR. KNOX said it was impossible to describe it in any other way. [Mr. T. M. HEALY: \"It is true!\" and several HON. MEMBERS: \"Stick to it.\"] He 86 maintained that they were guilty of conduct which, had it taken place between private persons, would have been described as fraud by every Court in the wide world. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ve been a considerable addition to the amount available for Irish teachers. The arrears due to the National Board he calculated at £74,000, and he asserted emphatically that those arrears ought to be paid to the Board. He was not sanguine enough to hope that the whole amount would be paid over this year, but unless some arrangement was arrived at this question would be brought up again and again. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " liars? § * MR. HANBURY rose to reply, but gave way to MR. T. M. HEALY, who said he objected altogether to the right hon. Gentleman replying. The Government ought to have the Chancellor of the Exchequer there. The Secretary to the Treasury was only a subordinate official, and he objected to a subordinate official being allowed to get up and repeat the answers he had given to his hon. Friend. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "Cries of \"Order!\" and \"Withdraw.\"", "preceding_text": "tter of vital principle to Irishmen, and they would not take the replies of the right hon. Gentleman. The British Chancellor of the Exchequer was responsible to them in this matter, and he ought to be present listening to the Debate. It had been shown on incontrovertible evidence 94 that Ireland was being robbed of £125,000, and were they to be replied to by a mere Barabbas on the Treasury Bench? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "ought to be present listening to the Debate. It had been shown on incontrovertible evidence 94 that Ireland was being robbed of £125,000, and were they to be replied to by a mere Barabbas on the Treasury Bench? [ Cries of \"Order!\" and \"Withdraw.\"] THE CHAIRMAN (Mr. WODE-HOUSE) The hon. Member will feel, I am sure, that that is not a proper expression to use, and I hope he will withdraw it. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "Cheers and cries of \"Oh!\"", "preceding_text": "Member will withdraw the expression. MR. T. M. HEALY I will do so, Sir; but I say the right hon. Gentleman is a committed party, and he ought, at any rate, to have the good sense to hold his tongue in this business. If the right hon. Gentleman carried into his private life and his private business this system of conducting transactions, he would say the less anyone had to do with them the better. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "Loud laughter .", "preceding_text": " defence of the Secretary to the Treasury. The late Chancellor of the Exchequer made a bargain with Ireland in 1881 and ear-marked the amount Ireland was to get as nine-eightieths. She had not got it. In 1896 they had got the full amount of nine-eightieths, but they wanted the money back for 1895, 1894, 1893, and 1892. The Scotch, too, had been robbed of £30,000. Fancy, £30,000 in bawbees! "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers .", "preceding_text": "t Ireland was to get as nine-eightieths. She had not got it. In 1896 they had got the full amount of nine-eightieths, but they wanted the money back for 1895, 1894, 1893, and 1892. The Scotch, too, had been robbed of £30,000. Fancy, £30,000 in bawbees! [ Loud laughter .] The Irish admittedly had been robbed of £125,000. Who had got the money—the predominant partner I The predominant thief. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "Laughter .", "preceding_text": "be a million next year. So this atrocious system of misgovernment by aliens would continue, with only a feeble protest by those who happened to be in the House. The National Board applied to the Treasury for information, and they refused it. The Board applied to the English Education Department, and, in collusion with the Treasury, information as to the amount coming to Ireland was refused again. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "Irish cheers .", "preceding_text": "y a little more shady. He asked any Unionist—was it any wonder they kicked against the Union? If the Treasury would not yield to necessity let them yield to arithmetic. Let them keep to the engagements they had made. The Nationalists would bring it up again and rub it in until they were sick of the subject, as the Nationalists of Ireland were sick of any union—political or financial—with England. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers .", "preceding_text": "not applying for Ireland's full share of the grant. It could not be said that that, neglect was entirely due to ignorance of the position of affairs. There was a Statute in existence, and if the Irish Members had paid attention to the needs of Ireland they would have seen from that Statute that the £210,000 was not necessarily the full amount. MR. T. M. HEALY Why, we had to whip you into honesty. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "Laughter from the Nationalist Members .", "preceding_text": "of what was granted last year, and more than nine-eightieths of the original English grant for this year. [Mr. T. M. HEALY: \"Keep it, and give us our money.\"] If hon. Members did not want the extra £2,000 or £3,000 that the Treasury was giving to Ireland, the Department had no wish to press it upon them. In fact it looked rather as if the Government were giving more than was absolutely necessary. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "eport to which the right hon. Gentleman had referred had not yet been circulated. As the right hon. Gentleman appeared to be anxious to cast some responsibility upon him, he would ask the right hon. Gentleman whether in the Committee he did not bring the matter forward and urge upon the right hon. Gentleman that 100 there ought to have been no surrender to the Exchequer of the amount in question? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "that this had already happened in the Treasury, and they must have a continuity of policy. If they put it as a question of continuity, it was a continuity of wrong, and did the Treasury really mean to suggest that, when there had been a wrong of this kind perpe- 105 trated towards Ireland, they were not going to try to find some remedy by which this money should be returned to the National Board. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "o suggest that, when there had been a wrong of this kind perpe- 105 trated towards Ireland, they were not going to try to find some remedy by which this money should be returned to the National Board. [ Cheers .] He knew that all the Chief Secretary's sympathies were with Ireland, and he thought it was the right hon. Gentleman's business to fight the Treasury to the bitter end over this question. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "the National Board. [ Cheers .] He knew that all the Chief Secretary's sympathies were with Ireland, and he thought it was the right hon. Gentleman's business to fight the Treasury to the bitter end over this question. [ Cheers .] This was no question of politics, and whenever hon. Members opposite claimed that this money should be repaid to Ireland he should be always most ready to support them. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " schools in Ireland, but with regard to the number attending schools in England—which was quite another thing—they decided, after conferring with the Irish Government and the Irish National Board, to alter that system, as they were advised they could under the provisions of the Act of 1892, in order to give to Ireland the same fee grant as was now given to England of 10s. per child in attendance. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " England of 10s. per child in attendance. [\"Hear, hear!\"] The hon. Member for Louth rather seemed to object to that principle for the coming year. All he could say was that, in his belief, it would give to Ireland more than she would obtain under the system of 9–80ths, and certainly much more if, as they hoped, compulsory education before long should be introduced into that country. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/class-iv", "section": "class-iv", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " what they should have to give in making up the deficiency in the Pension Fund would far more than compensate for the amount claimed to be duo by hon. Members opposite, which could not now be divided among the teachers between 1892 and 1895, because of the changes that had occurred. The Government had, therefore, chosen the only practical way to remedy what certainly in his mind was an injustice. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/business-of-the-house-land-law-ireland", "section": "business-of-the-house-land-law-ireland", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "d last night the Motion before the Committee was the omission of Clause 4 of the Bill. The Motion was put under some misapprehension, and the best plan of getting over the difficulty would be to move, under the new Standing Order passed at the beginning of the Session, dealing with clauses to be omitted from a Bill. In that he should include not merely Clause 4, but also Clauses 5, 13, 14, and 15—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/17", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/17/business-of-the-house-land-law-ireland", "section": "business-of-the-house-land-law-ireland", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ing with clauses to be omitted from a Bill. In that he should include not merely Clause 4, but also Clauses 5, 13, 14, and 15—[\"Hear, hear!\"]—and in making that announcement it might be convenient to state that he should make the Motion with regard to Clause 4 with a different intention as compared with Clauses 5, 13, 14, and 15. He proposed to omit these clauses permanently from the Bill. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/17", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/17/venezuela-and-arbitration", "section": "venezuela-and-arbitration", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "e had much discussion with the United States on that point. I think the tendency of the United States Government is to desire a rapid and summary decision of this question. In our view the principle of obligatory arbitration is applied for the first time, and it is attended with considerable hazards and doubts, and we are of opinion that a circumspect and careful method of procedure is desirable. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/17", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/17/venezuela-and-arbitration", "section": "venezuela-and-arbitration", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "y affect not only your own frontiers, but the frontiers of the colonies which are intrusted to your charge. These considerations have made us very anxious to be careful in every step we have taken, and we have felt that we would rather incur the charge of unnecessary delay than, by precipitation, involve ourselves in difficulties 6 which would affect interests that ought to be so very dear to us. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/17", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/17/venezuela-and-arbitration", "section": "venezuela-and-arbitration", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " race in a singular degree, and especially the good relations of a State with which we so desire to be on good terms as the United States of America. Therefore we have laid the Papers on the Table, and we hope to derive, from such attention as noble Lords on both sides of the House may devote to them, much guidance with respect to the subsequent conduct of the negotiations that we have to pursue. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/17", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/17/rents-in-ireland", "section": "rents-in-ireland", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ccupied an area of 3,284,445 acres, being 43 per cent. of the cereals, 31 per cent. of the land under crops, and 13.7 per cent. of the entire area of the country used for agricultural and pastoral purposes. This was a question which affected an enormous number of the best and most loyal people of the United Kingdom; an answer to the question was awaited with very considerable interest in Ireland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/17", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/17/rents-in-ireland", "section": "rents-in-ireland", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "s, the landlord would be entirely in the hands of that irresponsible body. This question was of far greater importance to Irish than to English landlords, because the former had not, as the latter had, other sources of income than that of the land. When the Irish landlord found himself unable to meet his expenses, he could not let his house or his sporting rights, as an English landlord could do. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/17", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/17/rents-in-ireland", "section": "rents-in-ireland", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "h of peculiar moderation, and he had supported his arguments by figures of undoubted accuracy. The noble Viscount had not come forward as the champion of the landlords' rights, but had placed before the House the views of the tenants with great impartiality. He trusted that Her Majestey's Government would not think that this subject had been brought forward in a hostile spirit towards themselves. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/17", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/17/rents-in-ireland", "section": "rents-in-ireland", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ent than he would for the freehold, could it be said that the holding was over-rented? He doubted, however, whether, under the existing system, the incoming tenant benefited by any reduction of rent, because he would have to pay a larger sum for the right of occupation in consequence of it, and the interest on the extra price he would have to pay would more than equal the amount of the reduction. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/jul/17", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/jul/17/rents-in-ireland", "section": "rents-in-ireland", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "rue, as was stated by the noble Viscount, that there had been a fall 20 in prices to the extent of 13 per cent., but that was no reason why rents should be reduced by 30 or 40 per cent. He wanted to know by what authority the Land Commissioners, who were given certain exceptional powers to use for one purpose, were able to use them for quite another, and that a predatory and confiscatory purpose. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/gold-coast-land-commission", "section": "gold-coast-land-commission", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "sible for the native chiefs to make any concession of land without the concurrence of the Governor; whether the native chiefs will be consulted before such a proposal becomes law; and whether the Colonial Office has sanctioned this policy? § THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (Mr. J. CHAMBERLAIN,) Birmingham, W. Yes, Sir: I have sanctioned this policy, and there are good reasons for it. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/gold-coast-land-commission", "section": "gold-coast-land-commission", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "brought to the local Government for approval which have proved to be signed by men who had no title in the land. In the interest of all the native tribes and chiefs, as well as of British investors, it is essential that the local Government should be able to see that such transactions are made in good faith and on reasonable terms, and that the conditions are thoroughly understood by the natives. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/sir-jacobus-de-wet", "section": "sir-jacobus-de-wet", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "le, and that he is not entitled under any law or regulation to any pension at all. The sum of £300 a year has been offered to him as an exceptional act of grace and favour, and is based on double the ordinary Civil Service scale. § MR. WILLIAM REDMOND (Clare, E.) asked if it was a fact that Sir Jacobus de Wet had refused this pension? § MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN No, Sir; I have not heard that. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/town-parks", "section": "town-parks", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and \"Question!\"", "preceding_text": "DERSON (Armagh, N.) said that if the suggestion of the hon. and learned Gentleman opposite were to be adopted, some inconveniences and absurdities might be expected to arise. For instance, if 2,000 population was fixed upon as the limit, a place having 1,999 inhabitants, which would not be a town, might find itself raised to the rank of a town because a lady in it happened to give birth to twins. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/reservations-as-to-mines-fishery-and", "section": "reservations-as-to-mines-fishery-and", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "f any power of obtaining them for himself, and leaving the Land Commission to be the body which should be intrusted to let sporting rights all over Ireland. § MR. P. J. POWER (Waterford, E.) expressed satisfaction that the hon. and gallant Gentleman had made use of one expression, namely, that you could not have sport in Ireland or any other country without the co-operation of the occupiers. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/shortening-judicial-term", "section": "shortening-judicial-term", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "nk of making, or a tenant who would think of taking, a lease for 15 years? He did not think there was an estate in England on which such a venture would be made. The experience in England, as well as in Ireland, showed that 15 years was too long a term to tie up either the landlord or the tenant. The late Government did propose to shorten the term, and certainly they should support the Amendment. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/shortening-judicial-term", "section": "shortening-judicial-term", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "tion after than before the passing of the Act, because they would be perfectly sure of getting their rents for 15 years. The tenant farmers in Ireland ought to be made to know that contracts would he enforced in that part of the British Empire, and that knowledge would be given them if this Amendment were rejected. A 15 instead of a 10 years' term gave the landlords something like breathing time. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/shortening-judicial-term", "section": "shortening-judicial-term", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "is proposal was rejected by the Committee, and was rejected by the deciding vote of the Chairman, the right hon. Member for Montrose. § MR. DILLON I recollect very distinctly that the Chairman said he was not prepared to commit himself on the question without further consideration. § * MR. T. W. RUSSELL said that he was reading from the actual records, which he had taken pains to study. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/shortening-judicial-term", "section": "shortening-judicial-term", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " as a settlement of their claim. § * SIR J. COLOMB said he rose in consequence of statements made on the other side, especially by the hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, who had said that the existing rents were higher than the tenants could pay, and that the interests of the tenants were at a very low ebb. The true test was the price which the tenants got for their tenant-right interest. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/shortening-judicial-term", "section": "shortening-judicial-term", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "nd they would find a gigantic difference. Ireland was a stock-rearing country. In some of his own land he was better this year than last, and last year was better than the previous year. Complaint had been made by the Member for East Mayo that the tenants were between the upper and nether millstone of landlord and labourer, but the increase in the wages of the labourers was a proof of prosperity. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/shortening-judicial-term", "section": "shortening-judicial-term", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers.", "preceding_text": " 31 years? In 1881 the Presbyterian Ministers of Ireland petitioned the House that the 15 years' term should be increased to 31 years. And who was in favour of making it 5 years? The Irish popular Party of that day. Who was it that was in favour of making it 10 years, and who put down an Amendment to the effect? The right hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury, now the Leader of the House. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/shortening-judicial-term", "section": "shortening-judicial-term", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ision, but from the sale day following the original notice. He thought the Government might have given some decision, when they were debating that point, as to how they were going to meet a thing against which no breach of contract could be alleged, the grievance which had sprung up from the congestion of the Land Courts at that date. The Amendment now before the House was one of great importance—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/shortening-judicial-term", "section": "shortening-judicial-term", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "lmost unanimous appeal of Irish Members of all sections to reduce the judicial term which would give relief to tens of thousands of tenants, and yet when the Government accepted some little scrappy Amendment that would admit a little group of one, two, or three tenants to a fair rent, or give them a little bit of bog, instantly the whole landlord party rose in insurrection against the Government. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/shortening-judicial-term", "section": "shortening-judicial-term", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "landlord party towards the Government because of the slight and slender Amendments which they had accepted? The hon. Member for Trinity College, in denouncing the Government for accepting those small Amendments, reminded him of the Princess in Hans Christian Andersen's \"Fairy Tales,\" who, being of royal blood, through 15 eiderdown coverlets was able to feel the crumpling of a roseleaf underneath. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/shortening-judicial-term", "section": "shortening-judicial-term", "cue_text": "Cheers and laughter.", "preceding_text": "accepting those small Amendments, reminded him of the Princess in Hans Christian Andersen's \"Fairy Tales,\" who, being of royal blood, through 15 eiderdown coverlets was able to feel the crumpling of a roseleaf underneath. [ Laughter. ] The Amendments accepted from the Irish Benches, were just like those crumpled rose leaves, which so seemed to affect the sensitive epidermis of the landlord party. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/shortening-judicial-term", "section": "shortening-judicial-term", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "unabated rent. Such were the tremendous consequences which attached to a breach of statutory conditions. He implored the Government to set aside the prejudices, raised on the plea of contract, to induce them to refuse this Amendment, and to bring to the large body of the tenants, as had been admitted by the Member for South Tyrone, something of comfort and something of security in their holdings. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/shortening-judicial-term", "section": "shortening-judicial-term", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "sting the Amendment, but considered they might make a concession in the direction indicated by the hon. Member for North Louth, and allow the tenants—the fixing of whose rents were delayed by the overcrowding of the Land Courts in former years—to make their judicial rents to date from the time of their application, or, at any 862 rate, from a reasonable period after the date of their application. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/judicial-term-in-cases-of-agreements", "section": "judicial-term-in-cases-of-agreements", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " cases, and in consequence of that the Government now denied them justice, and would impose on them not even a 15 years', but a 21 years' term. He protested against the policy of the Government in this matter as wholly unreasonable, and he would suggest to the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Trinity College that he might here have his revenge on the Government. [Mr. CARSON: \"I wish I could.\"] "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/judicial-term-in-cases-of-agreements", "section": "judicial-term-in-cases-of-agreements", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ct of 1887—a policy which was approved by both Houses. Then what could be the reason 866 why the Government refused to accept the Amendment. If the reason was the glutting or the congestion of the Courts, he could only say that the tenants would be quite willing to take their chance of waiting to get their rents fixed if they knew that the fixing of the rent was dated from the day of application. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/judicial-term-in-cases-of-agreements", "section": "judicial-term-in-cases-of-agreements", "cue_text": "Mr. M. HEALY: \"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": ": \"By agreement!\"] Yes; and, therefore, He trusted the right hon. Gentleman would reconsider the matter. 867 § THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY said he understood the hon. Gentleman wished to confine the operation of the clause to cases where, evidently by the terms of the agreements, landlords and tenants intended the term should end in 15 years dating from the time of the application. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/repeal-of-44-45-vict-c-49-s-8-ss-5", "section": "repeal-of-44-45-vict-c-49-s-8-ss-5", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " the earlier the period the greater would be the advantage to 870 the tenant, because at the end of 14 years, the rent having declined, the landlord was bound to pay the price fixed by the Court several years previously. He hoped that the Government would not give way on the clause. He was not merely a landlord. He was a middle-man, a present tenant, a future tenant, and a tenant outside the Act. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/present-thnancies", "section": "present-thnancies", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers.", "preceding_text": "t the position of the future tenants, those tenants, most of them, being in their present position owing to the failure of the Government in the Act of 1887 to provide a remedy for a grievance which they admitted to exist. § * SIR J. COLOMB said he was not going to ask the Government not to give way on this matter, because that was certain to produce a decision of the Government to give way. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/present-thnancies", "section": "present-thnancies", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers.", "preceding_text": "a right to get his rent fixed and a right to his improvements, but it was conditional on this, that when he had his rent fixed he paid it. He had been a Member of an East London constituency from 1886 to 1892, and had seen more evictions in East London during that period than he had seen in all his life in Ireland. MR. T. M. HEALY Did the English tenants build the houses they were evicted out of? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/present-thnancies", "section": "present-thnancies", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "ember of an East London constituency from 1886 to 1892, and had seen more evictions in East London during that period than he had seen in all his life in Ireland. MR. T. M. HEALY Did the English tenants build the houses they were evicted out of? [ Nationalist cheers. ] § * SIR J. COLOMB hoped that no heat would be imported into the discussion, as they had up to this got on amicably together. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "section": "turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " away privileges which landlords had freely given to their tenants, and which they might freely take away, But his hon. Friend, like others who had criticised that clause, had carefully avoided calling the attention of the House to its guiding and dominant words. Those words were that the privileges \"are to be necessary for the reasonable enjoyment of the holding.\" Those words were all-important. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "section": "turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " to be necessary for the reasonable enjoyment of the holding.\" Those words were all-important. [\"Hear, hear!\"] In this matter they were not dealing with privileges which the landlord gave one day and could take away the next. If the landlord took them away it would be practically equivalent to giving the tenant notice to quit, because the holding could not be usefully enjoyed without them. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "section": "turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "e necessary to the reasonable enjoyment of the holding; and, lastly, the privileges were not to be secured to the tenant for nothing. The terms upon which the privileges were secured to the tenant had to be fixed. The hon. Member had spoken of the Government taking away that which belonged to the landlord, but there was no unjust action of the kind in this case. There was no robbery in this case. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "section": "turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " in this case. There was no robbery in this case. [\"Hear, hear!\"] The Act of 1881 might have been wrong from the beginning, but it would be generally admitted that the Government had no option but to take that Act as the foundation of their action; and, that being so, he could not see that they were open to the strictures which the hon. Member and other hon. Members had showered upon them. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "section": "turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "e more strenuously than any other clause in the Bill, and he thought the opinion of the majority of the House, so far as he could gather it, was that, athough they lost the Division, they WON the day in argument against the clause. Although they had been in a minority, yet the sense of the House was with them. Members opposite did not admit the landlords had any rights except to pay the Poor Rate—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "section": "turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "cue_text": "laughter.", "preceding_text": "ds had any rights except to pay the Poor Rate—[ laughter ]—but he could not conceive a party mainly composed of Conservatives, which had always held to the principle of the rights of property, taking away from the Irish landlords lights and privileges which they had always enjoyed, without rhyme or reason beyond showing that the Act of 1881 was a bad Act, and that it might be made a little worse. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "section": "turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "cue_text": "\"Oh, oh!\"", "preceding_text": "e now to be lost, and by the law of the land these things were to be conferred on the tenant or whoever the tenant sold the land to. It was a monstrous proposition, and he had no Parliamen- 902 tary word that would fitly apply to it. If the power of the Irish landlords to deal with turf was to be obliterated, the Bill would create more confusion and bloodshed than anything up to the present time. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "section": "turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "dlords to deal with turf was to be obliterated, the Bill would create more confusion and bloodshed than anything up to the present time. [\"Oh, oh!\"] The Irish people had had their firing for nothing from time immemorial, and this wanton interference would bring in an element of hopeless confusion. Therefore, he declared the clause bad from beginning to end, and without a redeeming feature. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "section": "turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "E FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY said his hon. and gallant Friend had spoken with great warmth, and no doubt he felt strongly. They were told that they were interfering with the convenience, the safety and even the lives of the Irish tenants if the clause was passed. He did not regard that as a necessary consequence. Probably, in the great mass of cases, the bogs would be left precisely as they were. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "section": "turbary-and-other-profits-easements-and", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers.", "preceding_text": "n 903 the power of the owner of the soil to make those two advantages absolutely of no effect whatever, was a proposition which the House ought not to sanction. The Act of 1881 had been carried. He hoped they would do all they could to introduce a better system, but while that Act existed they should not pretend to give with one hand to the tenant what they took away from him with the other hand. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/ejectments-for-nonpayment-of-rent-in", "section": "ejectments-for-nonpayment-of-rent-in", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ture in the interest of the tenant himself. It was pretty certain that when the tenant came to owe so large an amount to the landlord, he owed yet a great deal more to the shopkeepers and other persons. The reason in many cases why the tenant was allowed to accumulate large amounts of arrears was that the too considerate landlord, who knew the difficulties the man was in, wished to give him time. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/ground-of-appeal-to-be-stated", "section": "ground-of-appeal-to-be-stated", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers.", "preceding_text": "le what they were now attempting to do by statute. § Amendment agreed to. § MR. T. M. HEALY moved to insert, after the Attorney General's Amendment, the words \"but shall be granted only on special grounds.\" § MR. SYDNEY GEDGE) (Walsall thought the Amendment should not be accepted. § MR. GERALD BALFOUR could not see that the words were unreasonable, and therefore accepted them. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/land-commission-and-land-judge", "section": "land-commission-and-land-judge", "cue_text": "cries of \"No!\" from the Nationalists", "preceding_text": "he Land Judge at some time or other. The Government certainly had no personal view in the matter, and they had no desire to bring into the Commission a Judge sympathising with either party in the agrarian dispute in Ireland. 915 He hoped the hon. Member would not press the Amendment. § Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. § MR. GEDGE said He rose to make an appeal to the right hon. Gentleman—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/land-commission-and-land-judge", "section": "land-commission-and-land-judge", "cue_text": "\"No, no!\" and an HON. MEMBER: \"Bosh.\"", "preceding_text": "e Commission a Judge sympathising with either party in the agrarian dispute in Ireland. 915 He hoped the hon. Member would not press the Amendment. § Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. § MR. GEDGE said He rose to make an appeal to the right hon. Gentleman—[ cries of \"No!\" from the Nationalists ]—and with a view to putting himself in order he would move the adjournment of the Debate. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/abolition-of-purchasers-insurance-money", "section": "abolition-of-purchasers-insurance-money", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "he Land Commission had practically nullified the purchaser's insurance clause, and so fixed the fair value as to prevent the purchaser's insurance provisions having any operation at ail. It was all the more unjust that in the limited number of cases this unfair state of the law should prevail. MR. T. M. HEALY As the Land Commission, have given us a great deal of trouble, we return the compliment. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/liability-for-arrears-of-rent-and-1", "section": "liability-for-arrears-of-rent-and-1", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": " which was that if the advance was refused the parties would be in the same position as if negotiations had not taken place at all. § Amendment agreed to. § MR. SAMUEL EVANS (Glamorgan, Mid ) moved the adjournment of the Debate. § * MR. SPEAKER refused to put the Motion, on the ground that a similar Motion was made only a short time before, and was not supported by a single Member. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/sales-under-the-landed-estates-court-act", "section": "sales-under-the-landed-estates-court-act", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " or consent of the legal owner; it would possibly interfere with the tenants also, and it imported compulsory interference with the discretion of the mortgagees. He thought it would be a hard case, and contrary to the interests of Ireland, if those men, who were living on their estates and doing what good they could, were compulsorily sold up without having the chance of redeeming their property. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/sales-under-the-landed-estates-court-act", "section": "sales-under-the-landed-estates-court-act", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "andlords to take a cool opinion from some unprejudiced persons as to whether this Bill by its purchase clauses would not shoot sovereigns into their pockets. This clause would bring forward the money of the Treasury to their aid and prevent the lowering of the land market. That any landlord should object to it, to use the expression of a learned judge in Ireland, simply capsized his intelligence. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/saving-of-ulster-tenant-right-custom", "section": "saving-of-ulster-tenant-right-custom", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " the tenant farmers of Ulster should be placed in a worse position than the tenant farmers throughout the rest of Ireland in regard to this matter. Was this the penalty that the Ulster farmer had to pay for having two representatives on the Treasury Bench? He claimed that the tenant farmers of Ulster ought to be placed in a better, and not a worse position than the farmers of the rest of Ireland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jul/28", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jul/28/saving-of-ulster-tenant-right-custom", "section": "saving-of-ulster-tenant-right-custom", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "resentatives on the Treasury Bench? He claimed that the tenant farmers of Ulster ought to be placed in a better, and not a worse position than the farmers of the rest of Ireland. [ Laughter. ] Hitherto the farmers of the North had been regarded as the petted children of fortune, and he was curious therefore to know the cause of their having now to take a back seat to the other farmers of Ireland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/sugar-bounties-germany", "section": "sugar-bounties-germany", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "scelles has been instructed to report on the differences between the old law and the new Bill. § SIR HOWARD VINCENT asked if Her Majesty's Government would make representations as to the injurious effect of the tariff upon British industries, and particularly upon Her Majesty's West Indian possessions? § MR. RITCHIE The sugar bounties question is by no means a new one, it is an old one. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/soudan-correspondence", "section": "soudan-correspondence", "cue_text": "cries of \"Oh!\" and \"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ernment? § * THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mr. GEORGE CURZON,) Lancashire, Southport Yes, Sir, in reply to the last Question of the right hon. Gentleman, I am well aware that a Green-book has been laid before the Italian Parliament, and I am also familiar with its contents, but it cannot be accurately described as relating for the most part to recent affairs in the Soudan—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/soudan-correspondence", "section": "soudan-correspondence", "cue_text": "cries of \"Order!\"", "preceding_text": "considers it possible for us to enter into the discussion which we hope to have on the subject on Thursday next without knowing what communications have passed between Her Majesty's Government and the Italian Government, and without knowing whether the précis of these communications as reported—the précis of the Reports in the Green-book—are authentic or not. Surely it is impossible—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/soudan-correspondence", "section": "soudan-correspondence", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "cuss the matter unless we are placed on equal terms with the Italian Parliament? § * MR. CURZON That is rather a difficult and complex question to answer without notice; but it does not occur to me that the discussion on Thursday next on the question of the employment of Indian troops in Suakim is at all necessarily connected with matters that have already appeared in the Italian Green-book. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/light-railways-bill", "section": "light-railways-bill", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "anding Committee) considered:— MR. JAMES LOWTHER (Kent, Thanet) said that it would save time if they had some idea given them of the Bill as it now stood as compared with what it was when it was read a Second time. Into the details of the alterations made he did not care to go, but Members generally had a very meagre means of becoming acquainted with what took place in those recesses of the House—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/light-railways-bill", "section": "light-railways-bill", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "iven them of the Bill as it now stood as compared with what it was when it was read a Second time. Into the details of the alterations made he did not care to go, but Members generally had a very meagre means of becoming acquainted with what took place in those recesses of the House—[ laughter ]—to which this Bill had been referred. This Bill had been relegated to one of the purlieus of the House—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/light-railways-bill", "section": "light-railways-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ajority approved of the provision then under discussion. There were two classes of railway which, it was anticipated, would be made under this Bill—namely, branches of main lines and steam tramways. He did not think any material alteration had been made in the Bill. The Grand Committee went thoroughly into all the questions involved, and, he thought, disposed of the Bill in a satisfactory manner. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/restriction-on-acquirement-of-land", "section": "restriction-on-acquirement-of-land", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "t for the purposes referred to in the clause. There was no provision in the Bill to prevent an order being issued causing an inquiry to be made of a more or less public character by the Light Railways Commissioners as to the acquisition of land under any circumstances and in any place, and it was because he felt there ought to be protection for individual proprietors, that he moved his Amendment. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/purchase-money-payable-to-limited-owners", "section": "purchase-money-payable-to-limited-owners", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "Ministers, and far in excess of the salaries of the great heads of the permanent Departments of the State. He made no personal reflection on the Commissioners, who were in no way responsible for the state of things which he had indicated; but there was no greater scandal in the official administration of the country than the payment of £3,000 a year for the work done by the Railway Commissioners. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/purchase-money-payable-to-limited-owners", "section": "purchase-money-payable-to-limited-owners", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "and the House would not go on year after year voting these large salaries without debate and discontent. The Railway Commissioners existed, and it was in the public interest to concentrate as far as possible in that one office not only the work of this Bill, but that of a great many other remedial and cheapening measures which would follow in the wake of the Bill. He begged to move his Amendment. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/purchase-money-payable-to-limited-owners", "section": "purchase-money-payable-to-limited-owners", "cue_text": "cheers", "preceding_text": "s usual to give names during the Committee stage of a Bill appointing them. § MR. RITCHIE said he was not in a position at present to give all the names. He expected to have been able to do so; and he yet trusted that difficulties might be overcome with respect to two gentlemen who he hoped would permit themselves to be named. The Earl of Jersey had consented to be chairman of the Commission—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/purchase-money-payable-to-limited-owners", "section": "purchase-money-payable-to-limited-owners", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "at present to give all the names. He expected to have been able to do so; and he yet trusted that difficulties might be overcome with respect to two gentlemen who he hoped would permit themselves to be named. The Earl of Jersey had consented to be chairman of the Commission—[ cheers ]—and he was sure the noble Lord would be acceptable to the House as a gentleman eminently fitted for the position. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/purchase-money-payable-to-limited-owners", "section": "purchase-money-payable-to-limited-owners", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "ad not the slightest hesitation in assuring the House that he should be able to obtain for the salary named a man of eminence who had had a large experience in matters connected with light railways. He did not believe that any sum he could name would 250 obtain the services of a better man. For the third position he did not doubt that he should be able to obtain the services of a patriotic lawyer "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/purchase-money-payable-to-limited-owners", "section": "purchase-money-payable-to-limited-owners", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "rative in the large parishes of Scotland such a provision must be inserted. § * MR. LOGAN said the attempt now being made by the Bill before the House to legislate on similar lines for England, Scotland and Wales, although the wants of the localities interested were so absolutely different, afforded an interesting object lesson as to the necessity for what was known as \"Home Rule all round.\" "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/purchase-money-payable-to-limited-owners", "section": "purchase-money-payable-to-limited-owners", "cue_text": "An HON. MEMBER: \"District Councils.\"", "preceding_text": "think there was a single parish in Scotland capable of carrying through light railways. The parishes that might be able to do it would not make light railways, and those that wished to have light railways would not be capable of doing it. The opinion of Scotland on the subject had already been clearly expressed. § MR. LLOYD-GEORGE said it was a question of the combination of Parish Councils. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/purchase-money-payable-to-limited-owners", "section": "purchase-money-payable-to-limited-owners", "cue_text": "Cries of \"No, no!\"", "preceding_text": "District Council applied for an Order to make a light railway and made a light 256 railway in certain parishes of their district, the Order might confine the expense connected with the railway to those parishes through which the line ran. § MR. HUMPHREYS-OWEN said he would be glad to respond to the appeal of the right hon. Gentleman, and, if the House would allow him, withdraw the Amendment. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/special-advances-by-treasury", "section": "special-advances-by-treasury", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " or a grant at a reduced rate of interest there must be some guarantee that the light railways would be properly worked, and in the opinion of the Treasury the only proper guarantee was the guarantee of an existing railway company. § DR. CLARK said the only explanation he could give of the opposition of the hon. Member for Somersetshire was that his hon. Friend did not understand the clause. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/special-advances-by-treasury", "section": "special-advances-by-treasury", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "istricts would combine and would come to terms with existing railway companies, who would be induced by the terms offered by the clause to build the light railways as small feeding lines for fishing and agricultural purposes. § MR. SOUTTAR did not think his hon. Friend the Member for Somersetshire was guilty of any inconsistency. The hon. Member for Caithness could hardly have read Clause 5. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/special-advances-by-treasury", "section": "special-advances-by-treasury", "cue_text": "\"Oh, oh!\"", "preceding_text": " grant to the landowners of this country, for it was they and they alone who would benefit. No doubt, in a few districts of England, agriculture was in a bad state, and the people who ought to come to the help of these districts were the landowners, who were making a good thing of their land at the present moment. The districts which were suffering from agricultural depression were few in number. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/01", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/01/special-advances-by-treasury", "section": "special-advances-by-treasury", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "ed. An exceptional state of circumstances such as was mentioned by his hon. Friend would not come under the provision at all. As to the Island of Skye, the Highland Railway had reached a point on the mainland almost opposite to the island, and 280 separated from it by a very narrow isthmus. § MR. LLOYD-GEORGE said he was sorry he could not agree with his hon. Friend the Member for Caithness. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/hunwick-churchyard-durham", "section": "hunwick-churchyard-durham", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ing funerals? § *MR. SPEAKER Order, order! MR. CARVELL WILLIAMS Will the right hon. Gentleman let me see a copy of the Vicar's letter? § *SIR MATTHEW WHITE RIDLEY said he should be ready to give the hon. Member all the details of the matter in his possession, and if the hon. Member gave him any further information to justify it, he should be quite ready to make further inquiries. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/telegraphic-charges", "section": "telegraphic-charges", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "e the result of concessions, and if a hard-and-fast rule were to be laid down, these concessions must be withdrawn. The result would be to increase the charges for telegrams, in which compound words and names, now accepted as one word, appear. § MR. HENNIKER HEATON asked the right hon. Gentleman whether he could explain why \"Hyde Park\" was charged as one word and \"Charing-Cross\" as two words "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/telegraphic-charges", "section": "telegraphic-charges", "cue_text": "Loud laughter .", "preceding_text": " would be to increase the charges for telegrams, in which compound words and names, now accepted as one word, appear. § MR. HENNIKER HEATON asked the right hon. Gentleman whether he could explain why \"Hyde Park\" was charged as one word and \"Charing-Cross\" as two words [ laughter ]; and 61 further, on what ground the Department charged \"father-in-law\" as three word and \"mother-in-law\" as one? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/british-south-africa-company", "section": "british-south-africa-company", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "n as the trial of Dr. Jameson is concluded. I am very desirous that this Inquiry shall be divested of anything approaching a party character, and I propose, therefore, to take the usual means to find out the general feeling of the House in regard to this matter, in the hope that a 73 unanimous agreement may be arrived at, both with regard to the form of the Inquiry and the terms of the reference. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "as not the case with subventions by the State. The tendency of all spending authorities was to bring up the rates obtained in the locality to the amount raised in the locality prior to the grant of a subvention from the Imperial Exchequer. In his own county the rates had not gone down although the amount gradually received from the Imperial Exchequer had amounted since 1888 to £100,000 per annum. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear\"", "preceding_text": "axation of the country. It was not the fact that the money was to be paid out of one fund rather than another. The principle of the interception of taxes had been admitted to be a false principle of finance, and to prevent the repetition of it the House was going to amend the Standing Order. This money was being voted by the House contrary to all the rules relating to the finances of the country. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "ion of it the House was going to amend the Standing Order. This money was being voted by the House contrary to all the rules relating to the finances of the country. [\"Hear, hear\"] The real point to which he desired to draw attention was that the pretence that this money came out of the Estate Duty was altogether a misrepresentation of the fact. It came out of the general taxation of the country. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "is money came out of the Estate Duty was altogether a misrepresentation of the fact. It came out of the general taxation of the country. [ Cheers .] It was quite obvious that this was the case, and the money to be applied under the Bill might have been devoted to the reduction of the Tea Duty, to the diminution of the Income Tax by a penny, or to the general relief of the taxation of the country. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " Bill might have been devoted to the reduction of the Tea Duty, to the diminution of the Income Tax by a penny, or to the general relief of the taxation of the country. [ Cheers .] Therefore, to say that all that was being done was that the Government were taking so much money out of the Estate Duty was really to place the financial part of the Bill disingenuously before the House and the public. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "at was being done was that the Government were taking so much money out of the Estate Duty was really to place the financial part of the Bill disingenuously before the House and the public. [ Cheers .] He desired it to be perfectly understood, in spite of this ingenious manœuvre, that the fact could not be concealed that this money was being taken out of the pocket of the general taxpayer. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "he Bill disingenuously before the House and the public. [ Cheers .] He desired it to be perfectly understood, in spite of this ingenious manœuvre, that the fact could not be concealed that this money was being taken out of the pocket of the general taxpayer. [ Cheers .] It was a contribution from the pockets of the taxpayers of the country without distinction for the purposes of this Bill. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "Opposition cries of \"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "greed with the right hon. Gentleman that it was useless to argue this question over again, because it had been fully discussed in Committee and on the Second Reading. He would not quarrel with the somewhat violent language of the right hon. Gentleman, who had been good enough to say that this sub-section was a disingenuous manœuvre, that it was a farce, and a misrepresentation of the fact. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "not quarrel with the somewhat violent language of the right hon. Gentleman, who had been good enough to say that this sub-section was a disingenuous manœuvre, that it was a farce, and a misrepresentation of the fact. [ Opposition cries of \"Hear, hear!\"] He consoled himself, however, with the reflection that he was a humble imitator of the right hon. Gentleman himself in this matter. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "umble imitator of the right hon. Gentleman himself in this matter. [ Cheers .] In the year 1888 Parliament deliberately chose to give up a certain proportion of the 97 Probate Duty on personalty to the relief of local taxation. When the right hon. Gentleman in the year 1894 abolished the Probate Duty, what did he do? He made himself guilty of the very proposal he attributed to the Government now. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "Ministerial laughter", "preceding_text": " 1888 Parliament deliberately chose to give up a certain proportion of the 97 Probate Duty on personalty to the relief of local taxation. When the right hon. Gentleman in the year 1894 abolished the Probate Duty, what did he do? He made himself guilty of the very proposal he attributed to the Government now. [ Cheers .] § SIR W. HARCOURT In Committee I explained that I continued this offence—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "Ministerial laughter.", "preceding_text": "nalty to the relief of local taxation. When the right hon. Gentleman in the year 1894 abolished the Probate Duty, what did he do? He made himself guilty of the very proposal he attributed to the Government now. [ Cheers .] § SIR W. HARCOURT In Committee I explained that I continued this offence—[ Ministerial laughter ]—because I had not at that time means or the opportunity of redressing it. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "me means or the opportunity of redressing it. [ Ministerial laughter. ] § THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said that what the right hon. Gentleman did was this. He abolished the grant out of the Probate Duty because he abolished that duty. He made a substitution for that grant, and provided that the money should be taken \"out of the proceeds of the Estate Duty derived from personal property.\" "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "QUER said that what the right hon. Gentleman did was this. He abolished the grant out of the Probate Duty because he abolished that duty. He made a substitution for that grant, and provided that the money should be taken \"out of the proceeds of the Estate Duty derived from personal property.\" [ Cheers .] Therefore the right hon. Gentleman adopted precisely the same words as appeared in this Bill. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": " of the Probate Duty because he abolished that duty. He made a substitution for that grant, and provided that the money should be taken \"out of the proceeds of the Estate Duty derived from personal property.\" [ Cheers .] Therefore the right hon. Gentleman adopted precisely the same words as appeared in this Bill. [ Cheers .] He accepted the epithets of the right hon. Gentleman, and returned them. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " paid to the Exchequer—that they should pay the whole of that revenue into the Exchequer and should only allow it to go out by votes subject to the annual revision of that House. That was, he ventured to say, the only sound principle 98 upon which finance could be conducted in this country or upon which the control of that House could be maintained over the revenue and expenditure of the country. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "\" Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " of the Act of 1866, to insert these words. That is a mere drafting question. MR. GIBSON BOWLES did not argue that it was necessary, but it was certainly advisable in the interests of the decency of drafting that these words should be inserted. It was not proper to repeal a very serious section of a very serious Act embodying a most important financial principle by mere implication and inference. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " establishing the local taxation account, 99 directed that certain taxes should be paid to it, but made no reference whatever to the Exchequer and Audit Act . That again was repeated in 1890, when the additional duties on spirits and part of the duty on beer were directed to be paid to the local taxation accounts, and no words of the kind now proposed by the hon. Member were inserted in that Act. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "interpretation of these Acts to have a phrase of this kind inserted in the present Bill, which did not occur in any previous Act, authorising precisely the same thing being done. This Bill, when it became law, would authorise the duties to be intercepted in spite of the Exchequer and Audit Act , exactly as other Acts had done; therefore he was afraid the Government could not accept the Amendment. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "fraid the Government could not accept the Amendment. [\"Hear, hear!\"] § SIR HENRY FOWLER (Wolverhampton, E.) thought the right hon. Gentleman's answer to the hon. Member for King's Lynn was simply an attempt to show that two blacks made a white. There was no doubt that what was done in 1888 was indefensible and wrong. § THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER Why did you not object to it? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "tion on which they could take the ruling of the Chairman of Committee, but that it was a question for the Speaker to decide. He gave notice at that time that when the Report stage was reached they should publicly ask the Speaker for his ruling on the clause. He made this statement in order to discharge himself from any appearance of having been guilty of the conduct which had been imputed to him. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "roceeded to define the property and conditions on which the duty should be paid, and by Section 22 the definition clause of the Act defined property as meaning \"real and personal property.\" The Estate Duty was levied out of a mixed fund of realty and leasehold, or personalty in England as defined in law. This included all sorts of property, and was not pure personalty or moveable as they knew it. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "Ironical Cheers .", "preceding_text": "no importance whatever. If the Estate Duty was not sufficient, they might have to bring in a Bill; but why they should restrict the payment to one class of property and one mode of assessment, he could not imagine. It was laying down a very ambiguous phrase to be paid out of Estate Duty in England. He hoped they would have some reason why the time of the House was wasted in discussing this point. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "section": "payment-out-of-local-taxation-account-in", "cue_text": "Cries of \"Oh!\"", "preceding_text": "nths ending the 31st March from the Local Taxation Account, that was, to pay a sum of money which was not due. It would be impossible, moreover, from a practical point of view, for the right hon. Gentleman to get his machinery into order to ascertain the amount which was to be paid. In the first place, he would have to get a separate valuation throughout every rural district in the whole kingdom. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/contributions-from-more-than-one-parish", "section": "contributions-from-more-than-one-parish", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "which were non-agricultural parishes. As far as they were able to understand this clause, the right hon. Gentleman had given a lucid explanation of it; but 114 the right hon. Gentleman must excuse them as to their difficulty in the matter, when he pointed out that on a former occasion the First Lord of the Treasury agreed with him in saying that he had not the remotest idea what the clause meant. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/contributions-from-more-than-one-parish", "section": "contributions-from-more-than-one-parish", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "Treasury agreed with him in saying that he had not the remotest idea what the clause meant. [ Laughter. ] He remembered that in one of the great State trials in the last century the Attorney General made a speech lasting three days in order to convict the prisoner, who was unanimously acquitted because the jury said that if it required three days to prove the prisoner's guilt he must be innocent. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/contributions-from-more-than-one-parish", "section": "contributions-from-more-than-one-parish", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "ve the prisoner's guilt he must be innocent. [ Laughter. ] So obscure was this clause that it seemed to prove the object intended to be carried out was wrong, otherwise an attempt would have been made to express that object more intelligibly. A friend of his in command of a Volunteer regiment, through giving the proper words of command, got his regiment into such confusion that it could not move. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/contributions-from-more-than-one-parish", "section": "contributions-from-more-than-one-parish", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "ong, otherwise an attempt would have been made to express that object more intelligibly. A friend of his in command of a Volunteer regiment, through giving the proper words of command, got his regiment into such confusion that it could not move. [ Laughter. ] He hit upon the expedient of dropping the use of technical terms, and said to the men, \"You fellows know what I mean; go up Regent Street.\" "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/contributions-from-more-than-one-parish", "section": "contributions-from-more-than-one-parish", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "per words of command, got his regiment into such confusion that it could not move. [ Laughter. ] He hit upon the expedient of dropping the use of technical terms, and said to the men, \"You fellows know what I mean; go up Regent Street.\" [ Laughter. ] He had always held up that example to draughtsmen. He had said to draughtsmen, with reference to a Bill, \"Could you not say, 'Go up Regent Street?'\" "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/contributions-from-more-than-one-parish", "section": "contributions-from-more-than-one-parish", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "e had always held up that example to draughtsmen. He had said to draughtsmen, with reference to a Bill, \"Could you not say, 'Go up Regent Street?'\" [ Laughter. ] If there was an object to be accomplished by this clause, he recommended the right hon. Gentleman to say to the draughtsman, \"Don't you think you can go up Regent Street?\" and say in plainer words than these what the clause really meant. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/contributions-from-more-than-one-parish", "section": "contributions-from-more-than-one-parish", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "d, let them have it so that they could understand it, and so avoid further friction between the rural and urban authorities. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL said no doubt the Government would take to heart the admonitions of the right hon. Gentleman, though, having regard to the manifold temptations of Regent Street, he did not know that he should recommend that particular street for the draftsmen to go up. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/contributions-from-more-than-one-parish", "section": "contributions-from-more-than-one-parish", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "itigation, and there was no form of litigation more expensive and vexatious than that arising between different parishes. It was with that object the Amendment was moved. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL said that hon. Members opposite might take it from him that the clause was clearly drawn and worded, and that there was no reason to apprehend that it might lead to litigation from looseness of construction. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/certifying-of-annual-sums-payable-in", "section": "certifying-of-annual-sums-payable-in", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and cries of \"Oh!\"", "preceding_text": "land and buildings been laid down in the Bill? Was the reason this—that, as in respect of accommodation land, the Government were not able to draft a single clause for the purpose of averting an avowed injustice? Right hon. Gentlemen on the Treasury Bench always said that they were dreadfully puzzled when it was a question of drafting a clause to prevent injustice from being done under this Bill. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/certifying-of-annual-sums-payable-in", "section": "certifying-of-annual-sums-payable-in", "cue_text": "Cheers, and loud and prolonged cries of \"Divide\" from the Ministerial Benches.", "preceding_text": "the purpose of averting an avowed injustice? Right hon. Gentlemen on the Treasury Bench always said that they were dreadfully puzzled when it was a question of drafting a clause to prevent injustice from being done under this Bill. [\"Hear, hear!\" and cries of \"Oh!\"] It apparently was a good deal easier for right hon. Gentlemen opposite to use their majority than to use their brains. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/certifying-of-annual-sums-payable-in", "section": "certifying-of-annual-sums-payable-in", "cue_text": "Loud Opposition cries of \"Order\" and \"Withdraw.\"", "preceding_text": "parently was a good deal easier for right hon. Gentlemen opposite to use their majority than to use their brains. [ Cheers, and loud and prolonged cries of \"Divide\" from the Ministerial Benches. ] He was not prepared to accept these professions of incapacity on the part of the Government. § MR. CHAPLIN observed that the hon. Member had evidently just returned from some festive entertainment. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/certifying-of-annual-sums-payable-in", "section": "certifying-of-annual-sums-payable-in", "cue_text": "Cheers .", "preceding_text": "ries of \"Divide\" from the Ministerial Benches. ] He was not prepared to accept these professions of incapacity on the part of the Government. § MR. CHAPLIN observed that the hon. Member had evidently just returned from some festive entertainment. [ Loud Opposition cries of \"Order\" and \"Withdraw.\"] § *MR. SPEAKER There is nothing disorderly in the observation of the right hon. Gentleman. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/25", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/25/certifying-of-annual-sums-payable-in", "section": "certifying-of-annual-sums-payable-in", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "vation of the right hon. Gentleman. [ Cheers .] § MR. CHAPLIN said he could scarcely believe that the hon. Member was serious in moving the Amendment. The hon. Member adopted a new principle and said that the buildings were to be valued at what it would cost to rebuild them. Tumble-down and bad buildings were thus to be valued at what it would cost to replace them by, new and good buildings. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/life-saving-appliances-on-board-ship", "section": "life-saving-appliances-on-board-ship", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "h my hon. Friend refers require that:— All lifebuoys and lifebelts shall be so placed as to be readily accessible to all persons on board, and so that their position may be known to those for whom they are intended. The Board of Trade Inspectors are in constant communication with the Department, and the necessity for vigilance in this important matter is impressed upon them in every possible way. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/kensington-gardens-kiosk", "section": "kensington-gardens-kiosk", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "n. Member, I have to say that the contractor at the kiosk in Kensington gardens made a private arrangement 152 with the club as to the joint use of the kitchen. In sanctioning this arrangement I gave instructions that the club could have no exclusive right to any inclosure, and, further, that the public should be allowed the same facilities for the purchase of refreshments as members of the club. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/kensington-gardens-kiosk", "section": "kensington-gardens-kiosk", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear\"!", "preceding_text": "d by the club under the trees; but, instead of diminishing the space allotted to the contractor, the accommodation has been increased. I have received complaints that some inconvenience has arisen, and in consequence I have made it clear that the public are to be allowed not only the free use of all chairs and tables, but, further, are to be served entirely irrespective of membership of any club. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/expiring-laws-continuance-bill", "section": "expiring-laws-continuance-bill", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "ly curtailed, he will consider the possibility of the Government giving facilities for the passage of those Bills to render permanent Acts which are renewed year after year in the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill ? § THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY In the very improbable event of the Government having spare time I shall be glad to consider any claims put before me from any quarter of the House. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear\"!", "preceding_text": "he Sharpshooter , the boilers of the locomotive type have been removed and replaced by eight water-tube boilers of the Belleville type. It cannot be said that any increase in horse-power per hour has accrued on this account… It is seen that an increase in weight is involved by their installation. He did not bring forward this Motion from a Party point of view. It was above Party altogether—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Cries of \"Order!\" and laughter.", "preceding_text": "lass of boiler. I do not think I ever mentioned the name Belleville 163 boilers, because I had no experience then of them, but I have now the experience of three years' sea service of Belleville boilers and another class of boilers. § MR. FLANNERY The hon. Gentleman has not answered my point. He now states that at the time he recommended the boilers to the House he had no experience of them. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Cries of \"Order!\" and laughter.", "preceding_text": "er class of boilers. § MR. FLANNERY The hon. Gentleman has not answered my point. He now states that at the time he recommended the boilers to the House he had no experience of them. [ Cries of \"Order!\" and laughter. ] § MR. C. H. WILSON If you will excuse me, I never mentioned the Belleville boilers. § MR. FLANNERY said the hon. Member was still wandering wide of the point. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " me, I never mentioned the Belleville boilers. § MR. FLANNERY said the hon. Member was still wandering wide of the point. [ Cries of \"Order!\" and laughter. ] Two years ago the hon. Gentleman took the responsibility of endorsing the action of the Board of Admiralty, and he now stultified himself by admitting that at that time he had no experience of the class of boilers he recommended. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "on. Gentleman controvert his statement that there was not a Member of the House who was managing a great ocean-going line of steamships who would say that his experience of water-tube boilers enabled him to recommend those boilers? § MR. C. H. WILSON I would point out to the hon. Member—— *THE CHAIRMAN Order, order! I think it is very inconvenient to carry on a Debate in this fashion. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " order! I think it is very inconvenient to carry on a Debate in this fashion. [ Laughter. ] At the end of the hon. Gentleman's speech the hon. Member for Hull will have an opportunity of replying. § MR. FLANNERY said that as an engineer he believed that water-tube boilers had enormous advantages, and they would become generally adopted in the Navy, as well as in the Mercantile Marine. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " dissatisfied with the result that they did not intend to fit any more of their ships with the same kind of boiler. As a matter of fact they had just written a complimentary letter to the maker of the boilers, saying they were so successful that they would have another ship fitted with them. That was a specimen of the way in which hon. Gentlemen omitted to mention anything that told against them. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear\"", "preceding_text": "out to take place, should be unsatisfactory, there would be a strong case for a Committee; but if, as hoped and had every reason to believe, those two vessels should realise in every particular the expectations which had been formed, he doubted whether the House would desire, or whether it would be wise to desire, that there should be further delay in fitting these boilers to Her Majesty's ships. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "the other boilers it would take six or seven hours. That was an enormous strategic advantage. The hon. Member had objected to an Admiral being associated with engineers in the Inquiry as to the best form of boiler. [MR. FLANNERY:\" I said dominate.'\"] He did not know what engineers generally were, but it would be an uncommonly clever man who could dominate the Chief Engineer of Her Majesty's Navy. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "sumption of coal in the Belleville boilers had been large, but hon. Members would now see from the Return that had been made, that the consumption had fallen to 1.85. He was quite conscious that he was unable to deal with all the technical points raised by the hon. Member, but he hoped he had shown the Committee that the Admiralty had not proceeded in any rash manner with regard to these boilers. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "l points raised by the hon. Member, but he hoped he had shown the Committee that the Admiralty had not proceeded in any rash manner with regard to these boilers. [\"Hear, hear!\"] As regarded safety, they believed they were safer than other boilers, and they believed they would be wrong to lag behind other Powers and neglect to put in boilers which were superior to others for naval purposes. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "se would be the trials of the Terrible and the Powerful. If those trials were saitsfactory the House of Commons would no doubt feel that the Admiralty were right in going forward. He hoped the Committee would not condemn the previous Board of Admiralty for having taken a step which was, no doubt, a courageous one, but which they believed to be necessary if they were not to lose the lead in ships. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " supremacy of the country if he did not. In the end he decided in accordance with the advice of his technical advisers, and the event proved that they were entirely in the right. No doubt the same anxiety must prevail in analogous oases in which there were differences of opinion, and he could only hope that in submitting these Estimates to the Committee he had not spoken with any undue dogmatism. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "strength of the boilers. § MR. BENJAMIN PICKARD (York, W. R., Normanton) If the statements of the right hon. Gentleman are verified, will the Government give compensation for the injury and loss of life? § SIR ARTHUR FORWOOD said that the moral he was anxious to draw was that the Engineering Department of the Admiralty was too sanguine in advising the Department as to these experiments. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "eight of the Belleville boilers being in excess of that of ordinary boilers. Surely there was some radical mistake in that assumption. As an instance in proof of this he might cite the case of the Majestic , the total weight of the machinery and boilers of which was 1,325 tons; and he found that if the Belleville boilers had been adopted in her, they would have made a difference of 200 tons less. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "the Cherson , a vessel of 1,200 indicated horse-power, and fitted with Belleville boilers, at Newcastle, and that gentleman told him that in a trial trip of 12 hours, with such stokers as he could find, the results, though not very brilliant for the first six hours, were in every possible way satisfactory during the remaining six hours, 178 and that no trouble whatever was found with the boilers. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "he first six hours, were in every possible way satisfactory during the remaining six hours, 178 and that no trouble whatever was found with the boilers. [\"Hear, hear!\"] The fact that 22,000 indicated horse-power was obtained in the preliminary runs of the Terrible out of her 24,000 total power was a proof, he thought, that there was nothing radically wrong in the Belleville form of boiler. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "e Belleville boiler throughout the entire service without further experiments being made, and he was very glad to know now that, so far as the results of the experiments already made were concerned, the bold action of the Admiralty and their advisers had been fully justified, for the experiments had wholly failed to confirm the alarms which had been raised in relation to the use of those boilers. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "o the use of those boilers. [ Cheers. ] He hoped the suggestion thrown out that the trials of the Terrible and Powerful would be made as exhaustive as possible would be adopted. There might be some difficulty in permitting a large number of outside experts to attend those trials, but he certainly thought that the fullest possible information should be given of the experiments when they were made. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " importance of utilising merchant ships as much as possible, and he was not satisfied how far they could be suddenly utilised in case of war. The whole subject should be considered by the Admiralty. He admitted its gravity, and the Committee might feel confident that the Admiralty would do its best to put our arrangements to secure the services of merchant cruisers on the best footing they could. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "the mercantile marine. One Admiral belonging to the Fleet of the North said that if the North had owned a few fast merchant vessels they would have been sufficient to raise the entire blockade, because of their speed enabling them to catch the vessels preying on their ships. The southern cruisers, he said, had reduced the tonnage from 2,660,000 tons to 1,492,000 from which it had never recovered. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "ed in salaries £20,000, it must be admitted that they 191 were a miserably underpaid staff. The head engineer of the Admiralty got only a paltry £1,300 a year. If he were in an engineering factory he would be paid double that sum. Even the First Lord of the Admiralty, who might be described as the manager-in-chief of the whole concern, did not get the salary of the manager of a shipbuilding yard. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "serably underpaid staff. The head engineer of the Admiralty got only a paltry £1,300 a year. If he were in an engineering factory he would be paid double that sum. Even the First Lord of the Admiralty, who might be described as the manager-in-chief of the whole concern, did not get the salary of the manager of a shipbuilding yard. [ Laughter. ] He only got the miserable pittance of £4,500 a year. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " First Lord of the Admiralty, who might be described as the manager-in-chief of the whole concern, did not get the salary of the manager of a shipbuilding yard. [ Laughter. ] He only got the miserable pittance of £4,500 a year. [ Laughter. ] The Secretary to the Admiralty was paid the wretched salary of £2,000. Many a head clerk got more than the Civil Lord, which was £1,000 a year for hard work. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "loud laughter", "preceding_text": " where not a tithe of the genius required in naval construction was needed, who got more than that. It was contrary to all ideas of British justice that 23 millions should be disbursed in the Admiralty Office and that the managers of the Department should be paid only £20,000 a year, or about a farthing in the pound of the sum spent. He therefore begged to move the reduction of the vote by £2,000—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "nly £20,000 a year, or about a farthing in the pound of the sum spent. He therefore begged to move the reduction of the vote by £2,000—[ loud laughter ]—in order to take the sense of the Committee on the subject. § MR. MACARTNEY said it was extremely gratifying to everyone connected with the administration of the Admiralty to find that the hon. Member was of opinion that they were underpaid. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " Committee on the subject. § MR. MACARTNEY said it was extremely gratifying to everyone connected with the administration of the Admiralty to find that the hon. Member was of opinion that they were underpaid. [ Laughter. ] He only hoped the hon. Gentleman would use his energy and eloquence in the country to persuade the Members of the House to give effect at some future time to his proposal. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "attached to service under the Crown, the Admiralty was able to obtain in all it branches the services of able and efficient men, which it was so essential in the interests of the country to secure. *THE CHAIRMAN Does the hon. Gentleman press his Amendment? § *MR. ALLAN After the remarks of the hon. Gentleman, who is perfectly satisfied with his salary—— § MR. MACARTNEY Oh, no; I am not. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "ention to the inefficient manner in which the hon. Gentleman's duties were performed—duties for which he received £2,000 a year. *THE CHAIRMAN As far as I can gather, the hon. Member moves a reduction in the salary of the Secretary to the Admiralty on the ground that gunboats have not been sent to protect the fishermen in the north of Scotland from the trawlers. § *MR. WEIR Only partly. Sir. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "N As far as I can gather, the hon. Member moves a reduction in the salary of the Secretary to the Admiralty on the ground that gunboats have not been sent to protect the fishermen in the north of Scotland from the trawlers. § *MR. WEIR Only partly. Sir. [ Laughter. ] The hon. Gentleman sits on that Bench, and has not a word to say about his duties. Does he understand them or not? I fear not. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "ter. ] *THE CHAIRMAN The hon. Member has not shown any ground for moving the reduction. It has been ruled already 195 that the salary cannnot be reduced on account of the particular matter of complaint which the hon. Gentleman now alleges. § *MR. WEIR I contend that the hon. Gentleman does not fulfil the duties of his office satisfactorily; in other words, that he is not worth £2,000 a year. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "R I contend that the hon. Gentleman does not fulfil the duties of his office satisfactorily; in other words, that he is not worth £2,000 a year. [ Laughter. ] § DR. TANNER supported the reduction as a protest against the way in which the right hon. Gentleman treated the Irish Members. They had a great deal more courtesy from the Civil Lord, and no Irishman would be found opposing his salary. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "drawn attention—the great importance of provision being made for young university men, as the 200 assistant masters, to live among the boys in the Britannia , and share their life both at work and at play. It was impossible to exaggerate the importance of these matters, for on the education and training of our officers at the threshold of their professional career depended the future of the Navy. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "at the Admiralty were adopting many of the precautions to which he had referred. They had to consider not only the education of the cadet when on board the Britannia , but the very difficult point how that education was to be continued when he passed into a sea-going ship—not only his education in the first two years as a cadet, but also his final education to make him an efficient naval officer. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " cadet should be grounded in certain subjects when he first went into the service. He had it on the authority of a large number of officers in different squadrons that it was only with the greatest difficulty that the education of the cadet could be continued on board ship—that the continuation of certain theoretical knowledge largely interfered with his practical instruction in seafaring duties. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "importance; while other captains were strict in keeping up the school hours and instruction. He believed they were 201 arriving at a great consensus of naval opinion that the ideal system would be that the young officer should be thoroughly grounded in all school knowledge before he went to sea, so that then he might be put less to school work and be employed more upon practical seafaring duties. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "021;\"] It was contended, as he had indicated, by officers of great experience that it was impossible to satisfactorily impart school or theoretical knowledge on board ship; they agreed that the young officer should have that knowledge, but urged that he should attain it before going to sea. The moral of that, of course, was that the young officer should be thoroughly grounded before going to sea. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "nd the practical application to the scientific and other knowledge the cadets had learned at their schools, and the moral of this was the raising of the age at which lads entered the Britannia. He quite admitted with the right hon. Gentleman that the difficulty—and it was a difficulty that occurred in every phase of education—was what to do with a boy between 14 and 15. No one wished to have him. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter.", "preceding_text": "ising of the age at which lads entered the Britannia. He quite admitted with the right hon. Gentleman that the difficulty—and it was a difficulty that occurred in every phase of education—was what to do with a boy between 14 and 15. No one wished to have him. [ Laughter. ] The public schools did not wish to take him until he was 15, and the private schools wished to get rid of him when he was 14. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear I\"", "preceding_text": " the opinion of the naval officers. I said we ought to have their opinion, but the other is the more important. § *THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY Which is the more important? The educational expert's? *SIR U. KAY-SHUTTLEWORTH Certainly. § *THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY said he would not assign the degree of importance as between the two. The naval officer knew what he wanted to have. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear hear!\"", "preceding_text": "SHUTTLEWORTH Certainly. § *THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY said he would not assign the degree of importance as between the two. The naval officer knew what he wanted to have. [\"Hear, hear I\"] Then the right hon. Gentleman said the educational expert would tell him how to get it. He thought it must be, at all events, with constant consultation with the naval officer who required the article. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "with constant consultation with the naval officer who required the article. [\"Hear hear!\"] He quite agreed—and he had acted upon it—that they must have the advice of the educational expert, and he had endeavoured to get it. But it was not only the limited educational expert they wanted. They wanted wide experience—men who had given their attention to educational subjects during a lifetime. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " the educational expert, and he had endeavoured to get it. But it was not only the limited educational expert they wanted. They wanted wide experience—men who had given their attention to educational subjects during a lifetime. [\"Hear, hear!\"] He was not quite certain—he did not wish to be egotistical—whether, in some respects, he could not claim to be among the educational experts himself—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "tention to educational subjects during a lifetime. [\"Hear, hear!\"] He was not quite certain—he did not wish to be egotistical—whether, in some respects, he could not claim to be among the educational experts himself—[\"hear, hear!\"]—because he had constantly taken an interest in all forms of education and been connected with educational establishments of various kinds for many years. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "nwich not being naval officers so much as men connected with education. He and his colleagues at the Admiralty were giving the greatest possible personal attention to the working out of the whole of this matter. He had examined the examination papers, which were set now to the boys of 14½, and he was sorry to say that some of those papers would be quite above his own capacity in answering. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " say that some of those papers would be quite above his own capacity in answering. [ Laughter. ] There were some of the papers which he thought extremely difficult, and in a consultation which he had had with the representatives of the masters of preparatory schools, to whom these papers had been shown, they admitted that the Divinity paper especially was almost fit for candidates for ordination. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "ation which he had had with the representatives of the masters of preparatory schools, to whom these papers had been shown, they admitted that the Divinity paper especially was almost fit for candidates for ordination. [\"Hear, hear!\"] Some of the questions which were set to these boys of 13½ and 14½ reminded him of some of the papers which floored him in his own examinations. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "f the right hon. Gentleman was sending them to Ireland. § *THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY said if his hon. Friend would tell him what masters in Ireland were 204 interested in this subject he should take care to send them the papers. The Committee would feel that such a step as he had detailed would at least inform them of the possibility and the probability of their plans being successful. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ge. They wished to have boys from the public schools, but they wished to have boys who had the same common education as the boys in other walks of life. The ideal system on which they would wish to work was that the boys should receive the same general education, free from any special professional character, up to a reasonable age, and he was entirely opposed to any competition at an earlier age. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ame general education, free from any special professional character, up to a reasonable age, and he was entirely opposed to any competition at an earlier age. [\"Hear, hear!\"] He thought it was bad that the competition must begin so soon, and the suggestion sometimes put forward that there should be a preliminary competitive examination even below 13 was repugnant entirely to his own ideas. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ht to be such that an ordinary class at a school should be able to send up boys to the examination. The papers ought to be such as would test the general ability of a boy rather than the special knowledge which had been put into him during the last six months or so, and the examiners ought to be able to discover the difference between a crammed boy and a boy of good general knowledge and ability. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " when they entered the Britannia , so that they should only have the shorter course of 16 months' training there, and when they went to sea the officers would receive them on board their 206 ships and find them much further advanced than they were now. More attention could then be devoted to the professional side of their education and to the kind of instruction which an officer ought to receive. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ght, if they could carry out this scheme, they were on the right tack. They were taking advice in every direction they could, and were looking at the matter from as broad a point of view as they could. For the present they had only raised the age by three months, and they should go on tentatively in that way. It was more than ever necessary that they should have a highly-trained body of officers. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ersity men with whom the right hon. Gentlemen wished to associate the pupils he thought it would also be right to have young naval officers who themselves had gene through the education which was necessary, who would be an example of what naval officers ought to be, and imbue the whole place with a certain naval flavour, without which he should not like to see the college established or to exist. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " and imbue the whole place with a certain naval flavour, without which he should not like to see the college established or to exist. [\"Hear, hear!\"] When they proceeded to this step they should endeavour to meet the views of the hon. and gallant Admiral 207 who had spoken on this subject, so far as to give to the college as much of a naval tendency as was possible under the circumstances. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "o see the college established or to exist. [\"Hear, hear!\"] When they proceeded to this step they should endeavour to meet the views of the hon. and gallant Admiral 207 who had spoken on this subject, so far as to give to the college as much of a naval tendency as was possible under the circumstances. [\"Hear, hear!\"] He trusted this explanation would be satisfactory to the Committee. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "amming if they kept up the system of nominations. If, however, they abolished the system of nomination and allowed any school to send up candidates for cadetships without nomination, they would have more boys get in without cramming than did now. *ADMIRAL FIELD said the hon. Member for Dundee advocated unlimited competition for the Navy. What a lovely proposal! How worthy of Dundee! "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "thout nomination, they would have more boys get in without cramming than did now. *ADMIRAL FIELD said the hon. Member for Dundee advocated unlimited competition for the Navy. What a lovely proposal! How worthy of Dundee! [ Laughter. ] Such a competition would be unlimited in filling the lunatic asylums with boys of 14. He recommended the hon. Gentleman to study elementary physiology—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "ach him that the brain of a boy of 14 could not stand the strain of competitive examination for the Navy. Unlimited competition was bad enough for the Army. It meant 600 candidates for 160 vacancies. Did the hon. Member want to apply it also to the most popular Service under the Crown? No; the friends of the Service would not cease to protest against it as long as they had tongues in their heads. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " for the Army. It meant 600 candidates for 160 vacancies. Did the hon. Member want to apply it also to the most popular Service under the Crown? No; the friends of the Service would not cease to protest against it as long as they had tongues in their heads. [ Laughter. ] It was a sweet Radical idea—this idea of unlimited competition—it was worthy of Dundee, but it would not go down with the Navy. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "o to the most popular Service under the Crown? No; the friends of the Service would not cease to protest against it as long as they had tongues in their heads. [ Laughter. ] It was a sweet Radical idea—this idea of unlimited competition—it was worthy of Dundee, but it would not go down with the Navy. [ Laughter. ] At any rate, the Service was safe for six years against those lovely Radical ideas. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "life, but they did not as a rule go to sea. He had listened with admiration to the speech of the First Lord of the Admiralty. He was certain that the question of the education of young naval officers was safe in the hands of the right hon. 212 Gentleman. A mother had sent him the examination papers in Scripture, and had asked him to protest in the House against her son being asked such questions. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "the Admiralty. He was certain that the question of the education of young naval officers was safe in the hands of the right hon. 212 Gentleman. A mother had sent him the examination papers in Scripture, and had asked him to protest in the House against her son being asked such questions. [ Laughter. ] She said she could not answer such questions, and, what was more, she defied him to answer them. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/navy-estimates-1896-7", "section": "navy-estimates-1896-7", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "yway, he did not try. The right, hon. Gentleman himself admitted that he could not answer many of the questions in those papers. Was it not absurd that in this matter they should be under the tyranny of Civil Service Examiners who were apparently unable to level themselves down to the minds of young persons, and who put such questions that mothers had to write to Members of Parliament in protest? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/jun/26", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/jun/26/business-of-the-house", "section": "business-of-the-house", "cue_text": "cheers", "preceding_text": " June 1896) Search Help HANSARD 1803–2005 → 1890s → 1896 → June 1896 → 26 June 1896 → Commons Sitting → ORDERS OF THE DAY. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. HC Deb 26 June 1896 vol 42 c220 220 § THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY I move, \"That the House do now adjourn,\" and in doing so I beg to give notice that on Monday I shall move the suspension of the 12 o'clock rule—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/tramway-bills", "section": "tramway-bills", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " engaged in their working. No less than 55 hours a week were required of the men. The Corporation had no power to make any change except by coming to that House and asking for powers. Sheffield had to pay a two-pence fare, whereas the Corporation of the city of Glasgow charged only a halfpenny for the same distance, and Glasgow was not working at a loss, but was making a profit of £12,000 a year. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/army-territorial-designations", "section": "army-territorial-designations", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "dopted with satisfactory results for all regiments of Regular Infantry, and have been accepted with a few exceptions by the Volunteer Infantry affiliated to them. The King's Royal Rifles and the Rifle Brigade, together with the Volunteers affiliated to them, retain their original titles. The question of the titles of Volunteer battalions is now under the consideration of a Departmental Committee. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/british-south-africa-company", "section": "british-south-africa-company", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "even of what was about to take place. I was so completely kept in the dark that I never had the slightest suspicion of what was going on or intended, and the discovery on Monday, December 30, that Jameson had entered the Transvaal on the previous evening came on me like a bolt from the blue. If there should be any insinuation to the contrary, I rely upon you to protect my character in my absence. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/british-south-africa-company", "section": "british-south-africa-company", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "hat Jameson had entered the Transvaal on the previous evening came on me like a bolt from the blue. If there should be any insinuation to the contrary, I rely upon you to protect my character in my absence. [ Cheers. ] I have only to add that I place the most implicit confidence in this statement from Sir Hercules Robinson, and I never for a moment attached the slightest importance to the rumour. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/colonial-office-vote", "section": "colonial-office-vote", "cue_text": "cries of \"Oh, oh!\"", "preceding_text": " it would be necessary to finish the discussion of the Colonial Vote on Friday, but the Government could not well be asked at this stage of the Session to give two days to the discussion. § SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT asked whether, as the Papers could not be laid on the Table before Friday, it would not meet the general wishes of hon. Members, apart from a section on the other side of the House—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/colonial-office-vote", "section": "colonial-office-vote", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter.", "preceding_text": "aid on the Table before Friday, it would not meet the general wishes of hon. Members, apart from a section on the other side of the House—[ cries of \"Oh, oh!\"]—that the Debate should be postponed until Tuesday, as suggested by his right hon. Friend. § THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY understood the section of Members to which his hon. Friend referred was the 452 whole of the Opposition. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/colonial-office-vote", "section": "colonial-office-vote", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "poned until Tuesday, as suggested by his right hon. Friend. § THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY understood the section of Members to which his hon. Friend referred was the 452 whole of the Opposition. [\"Hear, hear!\" and laughter. ] He imagined his hon. Friend would probably be able to give his views to the House with considerable completeness on Friday, even in the absence of the Papers. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Laughter and \"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " regard to the speech of the hon. Member who moved it, rather than in regard to the speech of the hon. Member who seconded it, who used the opportunity to discuss 473 every other subject under the sun, and said nothing with regard to the Amendment itself, except that the state of Ireland as regards taxation, when compared with Great Britain, would be worse under a Home Rule system than it is now. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ment he was speaking on the question before the Amendment was put. § * THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER At any rate I am unfortunately confined to the Amendment now before the House, and when I have another opportunity I shall be glad to notice the accusations the hon. Member has made against me of mala fides in dealing with the House in the matter of the Estimates, though I cannot do so now. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "idence. If I deprecated the action of the hon. Member then, I deprecate it still more to-night, when he has thought fit to raise this subject in the shape of an Amendment to the Budget Bill of the year, and to the financial proposals of the Government of the day—an Amendment which, if successful, would obviously not only put an end to our financial proposals, but to our existence as a Government. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "r whether that union of the two Exchequers, and the unification, so to speak, of the fiscal system of the two countries, which Mr. Pitt certainly contemplated as the result of the Union, was carried out at the proper time and in the proper way, are matters, which, no doubt, are interesting by way of historical retrospect, but which have only an indirect bearing on the present financial situation. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "and the diminution of her population are due to the existing fiscal system of the two countries. If I thought it necessary to go into the subject I could find other and far more important causes. To my mind the most important cause for the poverty of Ireland is this—that Ireland is, unfortunately for herself, not possessed of the mineral wealth which we have in such an abundance in Great Britain. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " at all to dwell upon that part of the question this evening. The hon. Member omitted to mention two very material points in his review of the situation. He omitted to remind the House that, although our annual Imperial expenditure has grown between the years 1864 and 1894 from £64,000,000 to £100,000,000, yet Ireland contributes to the common purse very little more now than she did 30 years ago. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "what the real question is. It is not a question as between the countries. The countries do not bear the taxation; it is a question as between the inhabitants of the two countries, who have to bear the taxation. Does the hon. Member say that direct taxation weighs more heavily on the inhabitants of Ireland than it does on the inhabitants of Great Britain? I noticed he carefully avoided that point. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "an it does upon the individual inhabitants of Great Britain. I should just like to observe that since 1860 the annual amount per head of indirect taxation levied in Ireland has only increased by 1s. 6d. That is not a very large increase. The hon. Member says that out of the total Imperial taxation raised in Ireland 76 per cent, is indirect taxation. That might be, but it was 87 per cent, in 1849. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": " a most remarkable argument. He says:— Where does your indirect taxation in Ireland come from? It mainly arises from tobacco and spirits. That, no doubt, is true. But he says that tobacco and spirits are necessaries in Ireland, whilst they are luxuries in Great Britain, and therefore they ought to be taxed here, but should be free from duty in Ireland, or, at any rate, taxed at a much lower rate. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ty in Ireland, or, at any rate, taxed at a much lower rate. [ Laughter. ] § MR. LOUGH It was tobacco I used the argument about, and I was quoting from the speech of the right hon. Gentleman himself. His words were that in a country where there was not enough to eat tobacco is a necessary. § * THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER The remark I made—which I am afraid was a very dangerous remark—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "; * THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER The remark I made—which I am afraid was a very dangerous remark—[\"hear, hear!\"]—and which 477 I know the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Monmouthshire does not approve of—was this; that where persons were sufficiently fed all expenditure in tobacco was waste. But are there no insufficiently fed persons in England and Scotland as well as Ireland? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "chest as well as the poorest. Of course there are, no doubt, many poor persons in Ireland, and so there are in our great cities, in our agricultural districts, in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland, and I cannot understand why in the world the hon. Member thinks that tobacco and spirits are necessaries of life to the Irishmen and not to persons in similar circumstances in England and Scotland. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "as well of Great Britain should remain under one system of legislation, under one management, under one Imperial control, and for the hon. Member, towards the end of the 19th century, to suggest that we should go back to the antediluvian system of a separate customs tariff for Ireland is a proposition which again I characterise as one of the most extravagant that could be submitted to this House. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " from 478 that point of view, is too low as compared with the taxation of spirits. But it was only last year that the right hon. Gentleman opposite took a step in the very direction which this view suggests. He abolished the extra duty of 6d. on spirits, and he continued the extra duty of 6d. on beer. Well, I have not increased the duty on spirits, and I propose to continue the extra and on beer. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "d Scotland. But I have no doubt that it is a matter that may fairly demand investigation, and that it will be investigated by the Royal Commission, and I shall very carefully consider any suggestions they may make with regard to it. But what does the hon. Member propose to do with his new fiscal system when he has introduced it? He proposes to abolish the duty on tobacco in his Irish Custom House—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers.", "preceding_text": " new fiscal system when he has introduced it? He proposes to abolish the duty on tobacco in his Irish Custom House—[ laughter ]—and he proposes to reduce the duty on whiskey to 5s. a gallon. He is aware that he will make a very large sacrifice of revenue by these two propositions. What economies will he effect in order to make up the deficiency? He proposes to get rid of half of the Constabulary. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ositions. What economies will he effect in order to make up the deficiency? He proposes to get rid of half of the Constabulary. [ Opposition cheers. ] I daresay that may receive some popular support in Ireland, though I think by no means as much as perhaps the hon. Member may suppose. Then he proposes to get rid of one-third of the cost of the civil government. That is a beautiful thing in theory—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "position cheers. ] I daresay that may receive some popular support in Ireland, though I think by no means as much as perhaps the hon. Member may suppose. Then he proposes to get rid of one-third of the cost of the civil government. That is a beautiful thing in theory—[\"hear, hear!\"]—but I can never believe that it would be found practically possible when you came to work it out in Ireland, "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "hear, hear!\"]—but I can never believe that it would be found practically possible when you came to work it out in Ireland, [ Cheers. ] And he proposes, finally, to take the whole of the troops from Ireland, and to cease practically all I the military expenditure for what he calls the \"army of occupation\" in Ireland. I do not believe the hon. Member could make a more unpopular 479 proposal. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "he military expenditure for what he calls the \"army of occupation\" in Ireland. I do not believe the hon. Member could make a more unpopular 479 proposal. [ Cheers. ] The troops must be somewhere. They are not maintained, as the hon. Member seems to suppose, for the coercion of Ireland. They are maintained for the defence of the British Empire and the United Kingdom, of which Ireland forms a part. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Ministerial laughter.", "preceding_text": "of which Ireland forms a part. [ Cheers. ] When he has got rid of them from Ireland and when he has devoted all the revenue he is going to raise in Ireland from Customs, Excise, and other sources to purely Irish purposes, what is Ireland, under his scheme, to concontribute to the defence of the United Kingdom and of the Empire and to Imperial administration? § MR. LOUGH I said what was fair. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "laughter", "preceding_text": "d all the revenue he is going to raise in Ireland from Customs, Excise, and other sources to purely Irish purposes, what is Ireland, under his scheme, to concontribute to the defence of the United Kingdom and of the Empire and to Imperial administration? § MR. LOUGH I said what was fair. [ Ministerial laughter. ] § * THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER But the hon. Member has written a book—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "and, under his scheme, to concontribute to the defence of the United Kingdom and of the Empire and to Imperial administration? § MR. LOUGH I said what was fair. [ Ministerial laughter. ] § * THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER But the hon. Member has written a book—[ laughter ]—and he has done me the favour of sending me a copy, appropriately bound in green with a beautiful shamrock border. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "en a book—[ laughter ]—and he has done me the favour of sending me a copy, appropriately bound in green with a beautiful shamrock border. [ Laughter. ] In that book he calmly proposes, instead of the £2,370,000 a year which Mr. Gladstone proposed to take from the Irish Customs Revenue for Imperial purposes, that Ireland should make to Imperial purposes the generous contribution of £20,000 a year. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "rock border. [ Laughter. ] In that book he calmly proposes, instead of the £2,370,000 a year which Mr. Gladstone proposed to take from the Irish Customs Revenue for Imperial purposes, that Ireland should make to Imperial purposes the generous contribution of £20,000 a year. [ Laughter. ] That is the fiscal system which the hon. Member considers not an extravagant proposition to make to the House. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "al question which is raised by the Amendment. I admit its importance. It is now under the consideration of a Royal Commission appointed on the recommendation of our predecessors. I am aware after what happened last week, that the recommendations of Royal Commissions appointed at their suggestion and composed of Gentlemen they had selected do not always commend themselves to their mature judgment. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers", "preceding_text": "cessors. I am aware after what happened last week, that the recommendations of Royal Commissions appointed at their suggestion and composed of Gentlemen they had selected do not always commend themselves to their mature judgment. [\"Hear, hear!\"] I do not complain of this; for neither the Government nor the House of Commons is ever bound to accept the recommendations of any Royal Commission—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "equires to be done. I ask the hon. Member, in his own interest, not to press the House to come to a vote which must necessarily be unfavourable to his own view, which may prejudice in the eyes of the country the opinions which he and those who agree with him hold, and which certainly cannot possibly further any relief which he desires should be given to Ireland in the matter of Imperial taxation. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Opposition laughter.", "preceding_text": "venue and enormously increased grievances, would practically repeal the Act altogether. 499 § SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT (Monmouthshire, W.) I hope the Chancellor of the Exchequer will not be too much alarmed at the sinister prognostications of the hon. Member for King's Lynn as to the yield of the Death Duties in the future. The hon. Member has always been the reverse of sanguine on this subject. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Opposition laughter.", "preceding_text": "be defeated by evasion and avoidance, and that the main result of that ill-considered and foolish scheme of taxation would be that in future years the Chancellor of the Exchequer would get less instead of additional Duties. I hope that after the experience we have had of the result of the Act the hon. Member for King's Lynn will pluck up courage and have more confidence in this source of revenue. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " of course became liable for the duty on that property, which came to him by process of law from his son. As to the proposal in regard to landowners, I would ask whether it is not tantamount to a gift to millionaires? Take the case of a man of immense fortune who has acquired a collection of this kind of great interest and value. You may be making that man of enormous wealth a present of £80,000. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers.", "preceding_text": " kind of great interest and value. You may be making that man of enormous wealth a present of £80,000. [\"Hear, hear!\"] Turning to the general aspect of the Budget—which I do not at all view in any hostile spirit—I would say, first of all, that it is to be regretted that in the financial 500 arrangements of the year you are creating liabilities in the future for which you make no provision. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers.", "preceding_text": "oduce of the Death Duties would supply the additional sum to meet the increased expenditure as the years went on. But here you have proposed an expenditure in future years for which you make no provision. There are two millions of uncovered expenditure in future years for the relief of agricultural rating and for increased demands for primary education. What are those two millions to come out of? "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "n. There are two millions of uncovered expenditure in future years for the relief of agricultural rating and for increased demands for primary education. What are those two millions to come out of? [ Opposition cheers. ] But that is not all. The Chancellor of the Exchequer is a man of unlimited faith. He said the naval expenditure next year is to be less than this year. Great indeed is his faith. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "nds for primary education. What are those two millions to come out of? [ Opposition cheers. ] But that is not all. The Chancellor of the Exchequer is a man of unlimited faith. He said the naval expenditure next year is to be less than this year. Great indeed is his faith. [ Laughter. ] I did not observe that that particular assumption was received with any enthusiasm on his own side of the House. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Opposition laughter", "preceding_text": "s to be less than this year. Great indeed is his faith. [ Laughter. ] I did not observe that that particular assumption was received with any enthusiasm on his own side of the House. [ Laughter. ] He is also perfectly confident that only a trifling expenditure will come upon the Exchequer in regard to South Africa; I suppose one must not say the conquest of the Soudan, but the advance on the Nile—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Opposition cheers.", "preceding_text": "so, in the belief of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, is not going to bring increased charge on the Estimates. Here, in my opinion, are matters of certain expenditure of indefinite extent, without any provision having been made for them, and I say that that, with our constantly growing expenditure and our very limited expectations of increased revenue, is a rather formidable condition of finance. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ver to Local Taxation Account, thus showing that it is Imperial revenue handed over under Parliamentary authority to local taxation. This is really a matter of great importance in dealing with local taxation and Imperial taxation. I foresee that the claims and charges upon Imperial taxation in respect of these local charges are going to become a verey serious matter in the finance of this country—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ntribution by 1892 to local taxation was nearly £11,000,000. To that you are going under this Bill to add £2,000,000; you will, therefore, be giving £13,000,000 out of Imperial taxation to local account. I venture to say the inevitable consequence of this will be that you will have to give another £13,000,000, because it is impossible you can refuse to the towns what you are giving to the country—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "ns. Yet a Chancellor of the Exchequer, with a surplus of millions, supported by these friends of the agricultural interest, makes the temporary duty a permanent one, although it was said that 6d. a barrel was equal to 2s. a quarter on malt. The First Lord of the Admiralty then said the value of a concession made by a Chancellor of the Exchequer depended upon the Government that might be in power. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": ", makes the temporary duty a permanent one, although it was said that 6d. a barrel was equal to 2s. a quarter on malt. The First Lord of the Admiralty then said the value of a concession made by a Chancellor of the Exchequer depended upon the Government that might be in power. [ Laughter. ] It depends upon the Government whether the Chancellor of the Exchequer makes this temporary duty permanent. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": " this country, and that you will not be led away by ideas of raising revenue on a great number of commodities which will certainly destroy the springs of your industry—and, above all, I feel entire confidence in the Chancellor of the Exchequer that he will not be induced to tamper with the fundamental principles of the finances of the country or with the currency on which your prosperity depends. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/finance-bill", "section": "finance-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "idered, inconsistently with our past principles. When my hon. Friends commented on the right hon. Gentleman's increase of the Beer Duty as an act injurious to the agricultural interest, they knew that the right hon. Gentleman was also proposing to increase the burdens on that interest by his Finance Act. He was not proposing to give any relief to that interest as we are proposing to do this year. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/public-offices-site-expenses", "section": "public-offices-site-expenses", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "gements had yet been made with the various ground landlords, for this reason—that until this Bill was passed the Treasury had no power to deal with them. Since last year arrangements had been made voluntarily with four interests, involving a sum of £50,000; but there were, of course, a large number of other interests which could not be acquired until the Bill was passed. This was not a Party Bill—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/public-offices-site-expenses", "section": "public-offices-site-expenses", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "s not a Party Bill—[\"Hear, hear!\"]—it having been previously proposed by the right hon. Gentleman on the other side of the House, and the more the Bill was delayed the more would have to be paid, because the owners were constantly putting a few bricks on to the tops of their houses and coats of paint in order to compel the Treasury to pay for these so-called improvements, plus 10 per cent. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/truck-bill", "section": "truck-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "ggested that there would be special advantage in referring the Bill to the Grand Committee on Law. § MR. LOGAN said that in reply to the question asked by the right hon. Gentleman the member for Manchester, as to what a firm would do without fines, in the case of workpeople coming late in the morning, he would only say as a large employer of labour, that such people had better be discharged.—"}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/truck-bill", "section": "truck-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "arge employer of labour, that such people had better be discharged.—[\"Hear, hear!\"]—for this reason that it would be impossible to apply a system of fines to 523 workmen coming late to work in the morning, fining the person 6d. who came a quarter of an hour after nine, 1s. for being half an hour late, 2s. for being an hour late, and so on. No firm could be carried on under such conditions. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/truck-bill", "section": "truck-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " it would be impossible to apply a system of fines to 523 workmen coming late to work in the morning, fining the person 6d. who came a quarter of an hour after nine, 1s. for being half an hour late, 2s. for being an hour late, and so on. No firm could be carried on under such conditions. [\"Hear, hear!\"] It would be far better that such workmen should be warned to look for other employment. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/truck-bill", "section": "truck-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "yment. [\"Hear, hear!\"] He did not think a system of fines to be at all necessary; workpeople who needed to be fined for neglect or carelessness, had better be got rid of, for the sake of the firm and the other workmen. He should support the Bill as a step in the right direction, and he hoped hon. Members on both sides of the House would support any Bill that would abolish fines altogether. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/truck-bill", "section": "truck-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " on the assumption of the total abolition of fines, but on the principle that it was not possible, even if it were desirable, to make all deductions, whether by fines or otherwise, illegal. In fact, he went further, and thought it was very arguable whether it was desirable to make all fines illegal, although it might be possible in some cases for a good employer to be able to dispense with fines. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/truck-bill", "section": "truck-bill", "cue_text": "\"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": "lation by reference\" was not quite fair. There was only one reference to another Act in the whole Bill. He hoped the House would give the Measure a Second Reading and allow 524 it to be referred to the Grand Committee on Trade. As there was no Bill before that Grand Committee it was reasonable to hope that in a short time a fair and reasonable settlement of a complex question would be arrived at. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/truck-bill", "section": "truck-bill", "cue_text": "Cries of \"Order!\"", "preceding_text": " was no Bill before that Grand Committee it was reasonable to hope that in a short time a fair and reasonable settlement of a complex question would be arrived at. [\"Hear, hear!\"] § Bill read a Second time. § SIR MATTHEW WHITE RIDLEY moved that the Bill be referred to the Standing Committee on Trade, etc. § DR. TANNER No, no! We want to hear something more about that. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/truck-bill", "section": "truck-bill", "cue_text": "Cries of \"Order!\"", "preceding_text": "HEW WHITE RIDLEY moved that the Bill be referred to the Standing Committee on Trade, etc. § DR. TANNER No, no! We want to hear something more about that. [ Cries of \"Order!\"] Let us have some explanation. As a matter of fact, Sir, in this House of Commons we should not allow things to go by the board, and if Her Majesty's Government are paid for doing their duty let them do it. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/housing-of-the-working-classes-ireland", "section": "housing-of-the-working-classes-ireland", "cue_text": "Cheers.", "preceding_text": "ading of this Bill, § MR. J. C. FLYNN (Cork, N.) asked for some explanation of its provisions, but was interrupted by— § DR. TANNER , who rose and said: It does not matter. It is only an Irish Bill. I would appeal to my hon. Friend—— § * MR. SPEAKER Order, order! If the hon. Member continues to interrupt the business of the House I shall have to take measures to repress him. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/stipendiary-magistrates-ireland-bill", "section": "stipendiary-magistrates-ireland-bill", "cue_text": "Nationalist cheers.", "preceding_text": "LAND Not greater jurisdiction. But inasmuch as the Queen's Bench held that an ordinary stipendiary magistrate was not a resident magistrate, there was no one qualified to exercise jurisdiction under the Licensing Act . § * MR. SPEAKER If the object of the Bill is to confer jurisdiction in Licensing matters, it is competent for hon. Members to speak of the qualifications of these magistrates. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/class-iii", "section": "class-iii", "cue_text": "Cries of \"Divide!\"", "preceding_text": " Government of paying the Law Officers a certain sum, and in consideration of the comparative smallness of that sum, permitting them to charge fees for contentious Government business, was open to great objection. Under the late Government the Law Officers were paid wholly by salary; they did the whole of the Government business for that salary, and that course was more satisfactory in every way. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "commons/1896/may/04", "house": "commons", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1896/may/04/class-iii", "section": "class-iii", "cue_text": "Laughter.", "preceding_text": "ARK in supporting the Motion said, the position was unsatisfactory. The Law Officers of the Crown in the various countries held their positions under various tenures. He thought there was a great deal to be said for allowing the Law Officers to take private practice if they had time at their disposal after the discharge of their public duties. It would at least keep up their knowledge of the law. "}
{"kind": "bracketed_cue_html", "date": "lords/1896/may/04", "house": "lords", "url": "https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1896/may/04/companies-bill-hl", "section": "companies-bill-hl", "cue_text": "The PRIME MINISTER: \"Hear, hear!\"", "preceding_text": " quite sufficient time to enable us to take advantage of any chance there may be of the Bill's passing through the other House, and we had better not restrain in any manner the freedom of their deliberations on a question that is of so much importance. § LORD HERSCHELL said that what the noble Marquess had suggested would entirely meet his view, which was that before the Bill left this House—"}